What is left for free will?

Originally posted by JS357
Fine, except I don't see the block universe in itself as a phenomenon-in-flux, or as an event. in fact I see it as quite the opposite. However, to the extent that free will means the making of decisions by an agent, I tend to agree that free will is preserved. IOW, within the block 4-D universe we know, I believe there occurs the making of decisions, and witho ...[text shortened]... s, needs to come to the fore and be revealed with clarity. Does it mean the making of decisions?

We agree it ‘s only a theory, yes. However, in the block universe model, according to the pieces of info available at the site you presented, every moment in time is equally real, so the whole of Space and Time must be laid out in one unchanging spacetime block; it follows that, if the cone indeed envelops all the possible changes and/ or fluctuations of the observer block universe according to the theory, then the block universe is indeed a phenomenon-in-flux that keeps together, at the same frozen spacetime, every element of reality (bit) of its whole history, which includes its evolution. Since this is the case according to the theory, my point still is, as I told you previously when I checked the site you mentioned, that time and the block universe should be essentially one; but in such a case, time would be non-existent at all in the block universe, and therefore it cannot be contained in it as one of its 4-D dimensions.

As regards the rest of your post, I conceive as “free will” a specific capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives according to those agents' Sensitive Dependence on Initial Conditions. Of course I admit that there are willings that are not free due physical, causal, philosophical, psychological, biological, theological and other constraints, but I believe in free will simply because in my opinion the agent's freedom cannot be seriously undermined and/ or diminished by the tampering I just mentioned. This is the core of my last post at the 3rd page of this thread
😵

Originally posted by black beetle
We agree it ‘s only a theory, yes. However, in the block universe model, according to the pieces of info available at the site you presented, every moment in time is equally real, so the whole of Space and Time must be laid out in one unchanging spacetime block; it follows that, if the cone indeed envelops all the possible changes and/ or fluctuations o ...[text shortened]... tampering I just mentioned. This is the core of my last post at the 3rd page of this thread
😵

"...time would be non-existent at all in the block universe, and therefore it cannot be contained in it as one of its 4-D dimensions. "

Maybe, but just as two events can be spatially separated in the block universe, they can be temporally separated. I have to read again to see whether all possible changes are enveloped in the block or it is only the actual changes that are enveloped.

http://www.ipod.org.uk/reality/reality_block_universe.asp

I think your concept of free will is coherent, but it might not satisfy people who want free will to be the justification for assigning moral responsibility to actions.

Originally posted by JS357
"...time would be non-existent at all in the block universe, and therefore it cannot be contained in it as one of its 4-D dimensions. "

Maybe, but just as two events can be spatially separated in the block universe, they can be temporally separated. I have to read again to see whether all possible changes are enveloped in the block or it is only the ...[text shortened]... people who want free will to be the justification for assigning moral responsibility to actions.

This is what I mean; if two events there in are indeed temporarily separated, the observer block universe should be by force a phenomenon-in-flux;


Edit: "I think... ...actions."

Sure thing😵

Originally posted by black beetle
And you sip them straight? Without rum??
😵

Oh, there's no doubt that a bit of rum intensifies the effect. 🙂

Originally posted by Pudgenik
but your choices are not the same as that of someone born in Somalia, or in Asia where the slave trade is rampant. Where is the free will of an Asian girl sold into slavery?

That was the basis of my argument. Since he's NOT a slave, I imagined that he had the same free will as the rest of us.

And I also might remind you that a person enslaved still retains a philosophical free will. God and Christ can still be chosen. Or rejected. It is still their choice. No one can take that choice away, even their slavemaster.

Originally posted by Suzianne
That was the basis of my argument. Since he's NOT a slave, I imagined that he had the same free will as the rest of us.

And I also might remind you that a person enslaved still retains a philosophical free will. God and Christ can still be chosen. Or rejected. It is still their choice. No one can take that choice away, even their slavemaster.

what about the free will of a person with mental illness/disability?

Originally posted by Suzianne
That was the basis of my argument. Since he's NOT a slave, I imagined that he had the same free will as the rest of us.

And I also might remind you that a person enslaved still retains a philosophical free will. God and Christ can still be chosen. Or rejected. It is still their choice. No one can take that choice away, even their slavemaster.

Very good Suzianne.

I only put that statement out there to make people think.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
what about the free will of a person with mental illness/disability?

First, basically, i am glad i am not God.

This might sound a bit rash. It is possible that God allows these people to exist for us. For us to find compassion within ourselves in helping others.