Originally posted by moonbus
gf: "You seem to be implying that EVERYTHING that doesn't relate to "empirically verifiable facts" is spirituality, in which case I reject your definition of spirituality as being neither a good approximation of what most people are describing in using the term, or for being in any way shape or form useful.
I don't think you actually mean that, but that' ...[text shortened]... terms, something along the lines of releasing endorphins in the brain) and nothing beyond that?
You seem confused.
You are giving me alternatives that are neither exclusive nor exhaustive as if they were both
resulting in a false dichotomy.
I think that it is objectively true that there is immense psychological value in the arts. And enjoy
a number of different forms myself. We crave stimulation and information and suffer stress from
boredom and monotony.
I think that it is objectively true that there is immense psychological value in [positive] social
activities as we are a social species. We crave interactions with other people.
Our cultures form a social glue and cohesion that allow our societies to function and thrive.
And I think that all of the above can is caused by the purely materiel interactions of the stuff
of the universe following the laws of physics. And can be explained [at least in principle] entirely
in scientific terms.
The subjective experience of what it feels like to watch/perform [say] a dance with a live audience
may only be able to be gained by actually doing the same, and we may not be able to describe
what is going on in scientific [or any other] terms that manage to transmit that experience and
the knowledge of what that experience was like to anyone else. But what is going on at a fundamental
level is all [in principle] able to be analysed objectively/rationally/empirically/scientifically.
I am [just as an example] a huge fan of the late great Terry Pratchett and of his fantastic [in every sense]
Discworld series. The imagination, creativity, satire, and humour of which are uplifting and enlightening
and endlessly fascinating. The pleasure and stimulation these books have [and do] give me is of
immense value to me. But that experience is not spiritual. It's rational, philosophical even, but not
spiritual.
Does that help?