@KellyJay
Why does 2+2=4? because we have defined addition that way within a closed, formal system. It tells us nothing at all about reality, much less point to a transcendent mind. Two rain drops falling on the ground next to two more rain drops do not make four rain drops. They make one puddle. Why is that? Because reality, unlike arithmetic, is not a closed, formal system. Pouring two liters of alcohol into two liters of water does not produce four fluid liters. Why is that? Because reality, unlike arithmetic, is not a closed, formal system. It is not possible to deduce anything at all about reality from mathematics alone, much less about any transcendent mind.
Why is it that checkmate is when the king is in check and cannot get out of it? Because we have defined it that way within a closed, formal system. Chess tells you nothing at all about reality. It's just a game we play.
Such is mathematics--it's a game we play with symbols which move according to rigid rules we have defined, albeit a more useful game than chess.
Your interlocutors in the video are making an elementary blunder, confusing the map for the territory, projecting their own (mathematical) models of reality as if they were part of reality itself. They're confusing the ladder, which they use to climb up the tree, for part of the tree itself.
@moonbus saidWell said.
@KellyJay
Why does 2+2=4? because we have defined addition that way within a closed, formal system. It tells us nothing at all about reality, much less point to a transcendent mind. Two rain drops falling on the ground next to two more rain drops do not make four rain drops. They make one puddle. Why is that? Because reality, unlike arithmetic, is not a closed, formal syst ...[text shortened]... elf. They're confusing the ladder, which they use to climb up the tree, for part of the tree itself.
the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon
@KellyJay saidThat's fair KellyJay, thank you.
Actually, it is only pointing out that math is independent of man or the material universe; without us, 1+1=2. As our understanding of math grows, these things become discoveries.
I think my point was people always seem to be explaining faith, which is not math and needs no explanation. Math comes from the brain and the universe, faith comes from the heart and the soul.
Truth is not absolute; your truths and my truths are very different.
We may have been created is His image (debatable), but we all have very different truths and that is what makes life and being alive so glorious. I have loved two women in my life, they are unique and perhaps in His image, but in very different ways. 😇
The Bible is not God.
Religion is not God.
a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon
@Bish saidTruth, like math, is independent from man; you can have your opinion, and I mine, but the reality of what we are talking about remains the reality of what we are talking about, even if we are both wrong about it. You can have your opinion about God as well, that is only your opinion, as I do, but God is not what we think, He is the great “I AM”.
That's fair KellyJay, thank you.
I think my point was people always seem to be explaining faith, which is not math and needs no explanation. Math comes from the brain and the universe, faith comes from the heart and the soul.
Truth is not absolute; your truths and my truths are very different.
We may have been created is His image (debatable), but we all have very d ...[text shortened]... 😇
The Bible is not God.
Religion is not God.
a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon
@KellyJay saidTruth is a property of propositions. Propositions are functions of language, and therefore not independent of man.
Truth, like math, is independent from man; you can have your opinion, and I mine, but the reality of what we are talking about remains the reality of what we are talking about, even if we are both wrong about it. You can have your opinion about God as well, that is only your opinion, as I do, but God is not what we think, He is the great “I AM”.
All your truths merely pertain to the map, to one specific model of a local &, for you, familiar patch of ground. You persistently confuse features of your particular map for the territory. Your map does not help me find my way around my patch of ground, and that is why I am not a Christian.
If I thought that 1+1=2 contained the meaning of life, I might agree with the interlocutors in the video you posted, but I don't. They are welcome to live in that imaginary world, if they find it sufficient, but mathematics is too small and rigid a world for me to live in. In multiplication, two negatives make a positive, but in ethics, two wrongs don't make a right--that should tell you something about the limitations of mathematics right there.