What species did birds come from?

Why are you making threads about what modern species evolved from in this forum? Do you have a spiritual point to make?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Why are you making threads about what modern species evolved from in this forum? Do you have a spiritual point to make?

Birds aren't modern.

My point is birds didn't evolve from anything else. The first were created by God and have been changing since.

my winky was created by The All.. and what a magnificent creator.. bless it be.. woot...

Originally posted by shavixmir
Birds originated from Dinosaurs.

Just look at their feet. The way their heads move.
Does that remind you of something lizardy?

Look at their bodies in proportion to their heads.
Is that mammal or something else?

Look at their wings. Leonardo studied their wings and nearly came up with a helicopter. I've studied their wings and come up with a ...[text shortened]... very special!

Listen to their yapping. Isn't that just like something out of Jurassic park?

I agree with your conclusion Shav but not your reasoning, especially references to Jurasic Park which are so dodgy I suspect you put them in as a joke. No one has ever seen a dinosaur walk or hear it chirp - they were trying to make the point in the film that birds evolved from lizards so they made the lizards act and sound like birds, not the other way around. You can't therefore say that birds act and sound like lizards on this 'evidence', especially seeing as modern lizards don't sound like or even walk in a particularly similar way despite the fact that hey are heralded as virtually unevolved in 'recent' history compared to other species.

Originally posted by Darfius
Birds aren't modern.

My point is birds didn't evolve from anything else. The first were created by God and have been changing since.

What was the first bird like? How do we determine whether something is a bird or a dinosaur such that there can be no organism with some qualities of each that doesn't fit neatly into either category?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
What was the first bird like? How do we determine whether something is a bird or a dinosaur such that there can be no organism with some qualities of each that doesn't fit neatly into either category?

there have been fossils found of some lizards with crude feathers, probably for warmth not for flight. Whether you class something like this as a birdlizard or as neither is a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I don't know what species birds evolved from. You have good points here. They aren't in any way conclusive, but they are interesting.

I'd like to clarify something:

[b]1. The hands of theropod dinosaurs and birds differ in important ways.
2. Theropod wishbones differ significantly from those of birds.

3. Avian lungs are very complex a ...[text shortened]... mages/lung_structure_and_ventilation_i.htm
http://www.devbio.com/article.php?ch=16&id=161[/i]

Scientists now view Archaeopteryx, which lived about 150 million years ago, as the earliest known (or most basal) member of the lineage of modern birds, but it still retained many features of small dinosaurs. These small, two-legged dinosaurs called theropods scurried around something like today's roadrunners. Many characteristics that typify birds were present in the theropods before birds evolved, including hollow bones, a wishbone, a backward-pointing pelvis, and a three-toed foot. In the course of theropod evolution, the forelimbs and hands became progressively longer. In some theropods, the bones of the wrist took on a shape that allowed the joint to flex sideways. This would have allowed these animals to whip their long hands forward in a swift snatching motion, perhaps to catch prey. The wishbone in theropods served to anchor the muscles that pulled the forelimb forward in this grabbing movement -- a motion that functional analysis shows to be almost identical to the flight stroke of modern birds. Theropods, though, probably remained largely on the ground.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/03/4/l_034_01.html

All living organisms share the same family tree. This fact is backed by evidence such as:
Archaeopteryx, a missing link between reptiles and birds
mammalian hearing structure, which evolved from reptilian jawbones
the animals of the Galapagos, isolated from the rest of the world
DNA profiles of life forms, present and past

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/benton2.html

Scientists now view Archaeopteryx, which lived about 150 million years ago, as the earliest known (or most basal) member of the lineage of modern birds, but it still retained many features of small dinosaurs. These small, two-legged dinosaurs called theropods scurried around something like today's roadrunners. Many characteristics that typify birds were present in the theropods before birds evolved, including hollow bones, a wishbone, a backward-pointing pelvis, and a three-toed foot. In the course of theropod evolution, the forelimbs and hands became progressively longer. In some theropods, the bones of the wrist took on a shape that allowed the joint to flex sideways. This would have allowed these animals to whip their long hands forward in a swift snatching motion, perhaps to catch prey. The wishbone in theropods served to anchor the muscles that pulled the forelimb forward in this grabbing movement -- a motion that functional analysis shows to be almost identical to the flight stroke of modern birds. Theropods, though, probably remained largely on the ground.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/03/4/l_034_01.html

In short, scientists don't know where birds came from. But Darwinism can't be wrong, it just can't be, Papa!

All living organisms share the same family tree. This fact is backed by evidence such as:
Archaeopteryx, a missing link between reptiles and birds
mammalian hearing structure, which evolved from reptilian jawbones
the animals of the Galapagos, isolated from the rest of the world
DNA profiles of life forms, present and past

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/benton2.html

Exactly why wouldn't a designer use some of the same material?

Do we use concrete for streets and dirt for sidewalks?

Why are you quoting Darwinism Darfius? I thought you refuted all that with your creationist views?

Originally posted by Darfius
[b]Scientists now view Archaeopteryx, which lived about 150 million years ago, as the earliest known (or most basal) member of the lineage of modern birds, but it still retained many features of small dinosaurs. These small, two-legged dinosaurs called theropods scurried around something like today's roadrunners. Many characteristics that typify birds were ...[text shortened]... igner use some of the same material?

Do we use concrete for streets and dirt for sidewalks?

Are you becoming a Deist?

The very title of the thread reveals the ignorance of Darfius, and the foolishness of those of us who fall into the trap of taking his questions seriously. Of course, when he cannot use elementary scientific terminology, he is not looking for answers from science. His purpose is to erect a platform for the declaration of his beliefs (especially his anti-scientific beliefs).

Birds did not evolve from another species; nor are birds a species. Birds are a class: aves, within which there are about 30 orders of birds, about 180 families, and about 2,000 genera with 10,000 species.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
The very title of the thread reveals the ignorance of Darfius, and the foolishness of those of us who fall into the trap of taking his questions seriously. Of course, when he cannot use elementary scientific terminology, he is not looking for answers from science. His purpose is to erect a platform for the declaration of his beliefs (especially his anti-scie ...[text shortened]... re are about 30 orders of birds, about 180 families, and about 2,000 genera with 10,000 species.

The point is birds didn't evolve at all.

Originally posted by jimslyp69
Why are you quoting Darwinism Darfius? I thought you refuted all that with your creationist views?

Those quotes are from frog. I answered the quotes.

Originally posted by frogstomp
Are you becoming a Deist?

No, I'm a Christian who believes Genesis is true, but the way Moses intended it to be true.

[/b]

Exactly why wouldn't a designer use some of the same material?

Do we use concrete for streets and dirt for sidewalks?[/b]

Is your god a human with limited physical resources and 21st century technology?

If your god is the first cause with omnimax power, there is no reason to think that it should use the same material instead of entirely heterogenous material.