1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    17 Nov '07 12:041 edit
    Jesus said "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free" . He also said that it would be the Spirit that would "guide you in all truth".

    In addition he said that he would be "in us and us in Him" and that we should "remain in him". He backs this up with a ritual (communion) that involves the taking in to our very bodies of his body (bread) and blood (wine).

    Given that he taught that the Holy Spirit was a real phenomena and was to enable us to be "born of the Spirit" , what are we to make of all this?

    He said that the "Son will set you free". What does this mean? Is it not logical to extrapolate that he meant that he was to live in us via the Holy Spirit and that this was the truth that would "set us free"?

    We could say that he was only talking metaphorically and symbolically , but I don't buy that , do you? If he wasn't saying that he was to live in us via the Spirit , then what was he on about?

    It's clear that he taught that the truth was to be revealed by the Spirit , much of it after his death----enter stage right ...St Paul , Acts and the rest.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you. (Jn 14:16-17)

    Jesus says, “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”

    "Remain in me as I remain in you ..."

    "When 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name , there will I be amongst them"

    "I will not leave you as Orphans.....I will be with you until the end of the age"

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2. England
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    17 Nov '07 14:11
    to my knowledge the truth is the word of god, other than that we are in the grip of the deciver.
  3. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    17 Nov '07 17:31
    Originally posted by stoker
    to my knowledge the truth is the word of god, other than that we are in the grip of the deciver.
    Do you not agree with Jesus then?
  4. Hmmm . . .
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    18 Nov '07 03:471 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Jesus said "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free" . He also said that it would be the Spirit that would "guide you in all truth".

    In addition he said that he would be "in us and us in Him" and that we should "remain in him". He backs this up with a ritual (communion) that involves the taking in to our very bodies of his body (br ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What does “set free” mean?

    The Buddha taught how to be free from mental anguish (suffering). Zen Buddhism teaches how to be free from illusions generated by thinking-mind. (Although these are not separate, all Buddhists are not Zennists, and I mostly know Zen.)

    [Buddhists also talk of being free from the cycles of birth and rebirth (by entering into nirvana), but I either take this as metaphorical or leave it in the realm of metaphysics (which is in the realm of thinking-mind); or I interpret it existentially rather than ontologically.]

    —If you want to keep this strictly within a Christian theological domain, however, I’ll simply respect that and intrude no further (well, at least until and unless the thread otherwise takes off in other directions, as they generally do).
  5. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    18 Nov '07 09:58
    Originally posted by vistesd
    What does “set free” mean?

    The Buddha taught how to be free from mental anguish (suffering). Zen Buddhism teaches how to be free from illusions generated by thinking-mind. (Although these are not separate, all Buddhists are not Zennists, and I mostly know Zen.)

    [Buddhists also talk of being free from the cycles of birth and rebirth (by entering into ...[text shortened]... east until and unless the thread otherwise takes off in other directions, as they generally do).
    I think Jesus meant us to be set free from slavery to sin. Sin can mean a lot of things but in essence it is separation from God. He meant that we become one with God , not split off or in bondage but free to have a relationship with God.

    In the mythical Adam and Eve story what was lost was fellowship with the creator . We have become enslaved to the ego , the ways of the world , enslaved to lust , hatred , pride , violence etc. These are all the palaces and temples of the enemy , the god of this world.

    The Christian message is that something has gone badly wrong with humanity and we need to be set free from it.

    "....and we live by the side of the road,
    on the side of a hill as the valley explodes,
    dislocated , suffocated , the land grows weary of it own,
    Ohh, ohh ohh on borderlands we run , and still we run,
    we run and don't look back..." (U2- Sort of Homecoming)
  6. England
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    19 Nov '07 11:22
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Do you not agree with Jesus then?
    the son bore witness to the father in heaven, why is this a problem with you.
  7. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    19 Nov '07 11:50
    Originally posted by stoker
    the son bore witness to the father in heaven, why is this a problem with you.
    It's not a problem at all. I'm just trying to establish how Jesus meant thr truth to be revealed. It seems that he meant that it was pasrtly his words and teachings but also the Spirit after he died.
  8. Cape Town
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    19 Nov '07 12:58
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    He also said that it would be the Spirit that would "guide you in all truth".
    Such a pity that he seems to guide everyone to a different truth. If he was doing a good job of it we wouldn't need the spirituality forum would we?
  9. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    19 Nov '07 13:101 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Such a pity that he seems to guide everyone to a different truth. If he was doing a good job of it we wouldn't need the spirituality forum would we?
    He said "guide" not "bludgeon" into the truth. If some are not willing to be guided then inevitably different truths will emerge . Incidentally , Jesus predicted this. Don't forget there are forces out there only too willing to guide us in the opposite direction.
  10. Cape Town
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    19 Nov '07 14:02
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    He said "guide" not "bludgeon" into the truth. If some are not willing to be guided then inevitably different truths will emerge . Incidentally , Jesus predicted this. Don't forget there are forces out there only too willing to guide us in the opposite direction.
    So are you one of those "not willing"? How do you know? Why are all those other unwilling people claiming that they are willing? Are you calling them liars? Are they mistaken about their willingness?
    What are these "forces out there" that are trying to guide us in the opposite direction? Why doesn't God do something about them?
  11. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    19 Nov '07 14:18
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    So are you one of those "not willing"? How do you know? Why are all those other unwilling people claiming that they are willing? Are you calling them liars? Are they mistaken about their willingness?
    What are these "forces out there" that are trying to guide us in the opposite direction? Why doesn't God do something about them?
    km
    So are you one of those "not willing"?

    --------------NO --------KM

    How do you know? Why are all those other unwilling people claiming that they are willing?

    ----------- WHO DO YOU REFER TO? -----------KM


    Are you calling them liars?

    ------MAYBE GW , YES--------KM


    Are they mistaken about their willingness?

    ---------AGAIN IF IT'S GW ETC YOU MEAN , YES------

    What are these "forces out there" that are trying to guide us in the opposite direction?

    ----------IF YOU WENT TO CHURCH YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD OF HIM-----KM


    Why doesn't God do something about them?

    -----------DO YOU WANT HIM TO? WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO YOU IF HE DID? READY FOR THE END OF THE WORLD ? ---KM
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