1. England
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    30 May '09 10:57
    on general thread thier was this question to RHP, i woundered this as some of the congregation of my church has died recently, and some look as tho they do not have too much time left.
    since they were regular church goers yet apart from family they have little to no reminder of them, yet there is a plaque within the church commerating some one who died in 1899 a lady who was a spinster and had much to do with the building of the church.
    i ask the question of you what is your legacy
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    30 May '09 12:11
    Originally posted by stoker
    on general thread thier was this question to RHP, i woundered this as some of the congregation of my church has died recently, and some look as tho they do not have too much time left.
    since they were regular church goers yet apart from family they have little to no reminder of them, yet there is a plaque within the church commerating some one who died in 1 ...[text shortened]... had much to do with the building of the church.
    i ask the question of you what is your legacy
    legacies are only for those who are obsessed with life after death. One who is comfortable with his own mortality has no need of a legacy.
  3. Joined
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    30 May '09 12:201 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    legacies are only for those who are obsessed with life after death. One who is comfortable with his own mortality has no need of a legacy.
    Not necessarily. Some humanists who have no thought of a world to come are concerned for thier legacy.

    You have some funny prejudicial ideas there.

    And the hope in resurrection is not an obsession. It is simply a hope based on what Jesus demonstrated.
  4. Donationrwingett
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    30 May '09 12:39
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Not necessarily. Some humanists who have no thought of a world to come are concerned for thier legacy.

    You have some funny prejudicial ideas there.

    And the hope in resurrection is not an obsession. It is simply a hope based on what Jesus demonstrated.
    If you are concerned about your legacy then you are concerned about life after death. Not the continuance of your own life, but how you will be remembered by those who live on after you. You are grooming a secular version of immortality by striving to live on in the memories of those who succeed you. So people who are concerned about their legacy are very concerned about the world to come.
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    30 May '09 13:577 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If you are concerned about your legacy then you are concerned about life after death. Not the continuance of your own life, but how you will be remembered by those who live on after you. You are grooming a secular version of immortality by striving to live on in the memories of those who succeed you. So people who are concerned about their legacy are very concerned about the world to come.
    ======================================
    If you are concerned about your legacy then you are concerned about life after death.
    =====================================


    As I understand it a person's concern about their legacy is simply a concern for their reputation after they depart. That is "How will people who survive me or future people view my life and accomplishments ? "

    It is neutral.
    It is not the perculiar characteristic of people of faith or of no faith.
    It is simply a concern for one's "resume" so to speak once they die.
    And I can't imagine how it could not be in most cases a positive thing to be concerned with.

    "How will history remember me?" is the question asked by people concerned for their legacy. And if they are not that famous, they may be concerned about how family and friends will remember them.

    Any suggestion that only people hoping for life after death think about legacy is ridiculous.

    ============================
    Not the continuance of your own life, but how you will be remembered by those who live on after you.
    ===========================


    That's what I am saying.

    ===============================
    You are grooming a secular version of immortality by striving to live on in the memories of those who succeed you.
    ==================================


    Concern for one's legacy is neutral. It is not more secular than religious. It is not more religious than secular.

    ================================
    So people who are concerned about their legacy are very concerned about the world to come.
    ================================


    I'm not sure I know what you mean.

    It is common to ask people "How would you like to be remembered when you die?"

    Your prejudicial prescription that only "other worldly" minded people are concerned for their legacy is ridiculous.

    You brag "But I on the other hand, feel very comfortable with my mortality."

    Fine. Good for you. Do you want people to publish lies about crimes you didn't commit after you die ?

    Are you a little concerned for your children's memory of you (if you have any)?

    If so then you're concerned for your legacy at least somewhat. If you really don't care, then I'd say you're kind of abnormal. Who doesn't care about what kind of reputation they have in life or even afterwards ?
  6. Donationrwingett
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    30 May '09 15:14
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]======================================
    If you are concerned about your legacy then you are concerned about life after death.
    =====================================


    As I understand it a person's concern about their legacy is simply a concern for their reputation after they depart. That is "How will people who survive me or future people v ...[text shortened]... re about what kind of reputation they have in life or even afterwards ?[/b]
    Pride and vanity. People do not groom their legacy so that they will necessarily be remembered well, but so that they will simply be remembered. So we see people climbing mountains, doing great deeds, committing heinous crimes, all so that they will leave their 'mark' on the world around them. As though this fame (or infamy) will provide some small measure of immortality. Those who are comfortable with their mortality will live this life for its own sake without reference to how or if they will be remembered. To live well is its own sufficient reward.
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    30 May '09 15:24
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]======================================
    If you are concerned about your legacy then you are concerned about life after death.
    =====================================


    As I understand it a person's concern about their legacy is simply a concern for their reputation after they depart. That is "How will people who survive me or future people v ...[text shortened]... re about what kind of reputation they have in life or even afterwards ?[/b]
    Concern about legacy is a form of worldiness and vanity, both of which were condemned by Christ.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    30 May '09 15:33
    I do not care where or how I am buried. My friend has left very specific instructions. He cannot understand my stance at all.
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    30 May '09 22:19
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Pride and vanity. People do not groom their legacy so that they will necessarily be remembered well, but so that they will simply be remembered. So we see people climbing mountains, doing great deeds, committing heinous crimes, all so that they will leave their 'mark' on the world around them. As though this fame (or infamy) will provide some small measure ...[text shortened]... out reference to how or if they will be remembered. To live well is its own sufficient reward.
    ==================================
    Pride and vanity. People do not groom their legacy so that they will necessarily be remembered well, but so that they will simply be remembered. So we see people climbing mountains, doing great deeds, committing heinous crimes, all so that they will leave their 'mark' on the world around them. As though this fame (or infamy) will provide some small measure of immortality. Those who are comfortable with their mortality will live this life for its own sake without reference to how or if they will be remembered. To live well is its own sufficient reward.
    ===================================


    I think you are emphasizing only the ego satisfaction side of the matter.

    Legacy can also be simply a wish that the positive contribution you have made would not be destroyed.

    For example a founder of a company that performs some service is to continue after the founder dies. He or she does not particularly care for how well thier reputation is for soley personal ego satisfaction. But they are concerned that the "mission" or the "service" to society would not discontinue with their death.

    Isn't this also a form of concern for "legacy"?

    I don't see that all concern for legacy as necesarily an ego trip.
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    30 May '09 22:25
    Originally posted by FMF
    I do not care where or how I am buried. My friend has left very specific instructions. He cannot understand my stance at all.
    i on the other hand would like a viking burial, a longboat, set on fire with all my worldly goods beside me, my axe (yamaha SG3000 guitar etc) set adrift by the side of the ocean, pushed out into the ends of the earth, where i may cross the rainbow bridge towards asgard, to the hall of the slain in Valhalla, to play chess and feast with pretty maidens with pigtails every day, ah the joys.
  11. Donationrwingett
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    31 May '09 02:07
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i on the other hand would like a viking burial, a longboat, set on fire with all my worldly goods beside me, my axe (yamaha SG3000 guitar etc) set adrift by the side of the ocean, pushed out into the ends of the earth, where i may cross the rainbow bridge towards asgard, to the hall of the slain in Valhalla, to play chess and feast with pretty maidens with pigtails every day, ah the joys.
    I'm afraid it's the lake of fire for you.
  12. Donationrwingett
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    31 May '09 02:111 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    ==================================
    Pride and vanity. People do not groom their legacy so that they will necessarily be remembered well, but so that they will simply be remembered. So we see people climbing mountains, doing great deeds, committing heinous crimes, all so that they will leave their 'mark' on the world around them. As though this fame ( for "legacy"?

    I don't see that all concern for legacy as necesarily an ego trip.
    If you're doing it with an eye toward your "legacy", then it is all pride and vanity.
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    31 May '09 21:332 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If you're doing it with an eye toward your "legacy", then it is all pride and vanity.
    Sounds a little bit like -

    Its vanity of vanities. All is vanity says Solomon.

    " ... all that is in the world is, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the vainglory of life, is not of the Father but is of the world.

    And the world is passing away, and its lust, but he who does the will of God abides forever." (1 John 2:15b,16)


    Did you ever read the story of king Hezekiah ?
    It is a lesson in the vanity and pride of selfish ambition for legacy in the negative sense.
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    31 May '09 22:142 edits
    i hope i am remembered in some way,maybe not favourably-idon't know
    At least i may have pissed off one or two people
    But yeah i agree with rwingett-its all ego
  15. England
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    01 Jun '09 10:00
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Concern about legacy is a form of worldiness and vanity, both of which were condemned by Christ.
    do not agree. the saints etc leave a legacy, my point is not some glory to the person, but the memory of what that person left, ie the spinster who must have been a driving force to build the church i go
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