1. Zugzwang
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    03 Apr '15 00:331 edit
    Islam has been spreading more rapidly than Christianity in the world.
    The US Pew Research Center now estimates that the number of Muslims
    will equal the number of Christians in the world by about 2070.
    Afterward, Islam is expected to become the world's most popular religion.
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Apr '15 00:36
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    When Will Muslims Outnumber Christians?
    I reckon in about 2070 or shortly thereafter.
  3. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Apr '15 04:21
    Originally posted by FMF
    I reckon in about 2070 or shortly thereafter.
    It could easily become quicker than that if the Muslim extremists are allowed to continue to massacre Christians and threaten those that do not convert. 🙁
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Apr '15 04:45
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    It could easily become quicker than that if the Muslim extremists are allowed to continue to massacre Christians and threaten those that do not convert. 🙁
    Don't be daft. Far more Muslims than Christians are being killed by Muslims in the various violent trouble spots that we see at the moment. The number of Christians who may have been killed for not converting [and for the purposes of terrorist propaganda] is absolutely miniscule compared to the demographic changes mentioned in the OP.
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Apr '15 05:091 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Don't be daft. Far more Muslims than Christians are being killed by Muslims in the various violent trouble spots that we see at the moment. The number of Christians who may have been killed for not converting [and for the purposes of terrorist propaganda] is absolutely miniscule compared to the demographic changes mentioned in the OP.
    Massacre: Muslim Terrorists Attack A College, Sorts Out Christians From Muslims And Executes 70 Christian Students


    Somalia’s al Shabaab Muslim terrorist group has claimed responsibility for the pre-dawn attack.

    “We sorted people out and released the Muslims,” said spokesman Sheikh Abdiasis Abu Musab.

    “There are many dead bodies of Christians inside the building. We are also holding many Christians alive. Fighting still goes on inside the college.”

    UPDATE: THE NUMBER NOW IS 147 As confirmed by the government of Kenya:

    http://shoebat.com/2015/04/02/massacre-muslim-terrorists-attack-a-college-sorts-out-christians-from-muslims-and-executes-70-christian-students/

    ISIS 'Systematically Beheading Children' in Iraq; They Are 'Killing Every Christian They See,' Says Chaldean Leader

    Addressing the plight of Christians in Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, since it was captured by the Islamic State militants, Arabo said 95 percent of them were forced to flee while some five percent of the Christian population converted to Islam.

    He said even Christians who thought they could escape persecution by paying a fine discovered later that there was no honor among the militants.

    "The letter that they sent out with those three items (convert, pay a fine or die), they did ask to pay a fine but actually after they pay a fine, they (ISIS militants) are actually taking over their wives and their daughters and making them into their wives. So really it's convert or die, face death by the sword," explained Arabo.

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/isis-systematically-beheading-children-in-iraq-they-are-killing-every-christian-they-see-says-chaldean-leader-124594/
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Apr '15 05:33
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    [quote] [b]Massacre: Muslim Terrorists Attack A College, Sorts Out Christians From Muslims And Executes 70 Christian Students


    Somalia’s al Shabaab Muslim terrorist group has claimed responsibility for the pre-dawn attack.

    “We sorted people out and released the Muslims,” said spokesman Sheikh Abdiasis Abu Musab.

    “There are many dead bodies of ...[text shortened]... errorists-attack-a-college-sorts-out-christians-from-muslims-and-executes-70-christian-students/[/b]
    Like I say, it's plain daft and almost dementedly tabloid to suggest that Christian victims of some terrorists in Somali, Kenya and elsewhere are going to have any impact on the demographic trends projected in the OP.

    US drone strikes have killed 40, 50, 60 Muslims at a pop, on numerous occasions, and yet no one is claiming this is going to prolong the period during which Christians continue to outnumber Muslims. No one has claimed that all the many thousands of Muslims killed by the US and its allies in Iraq and Afghanistan is going to affect demographic trends. And they are quite right not to. It'd be daft.

    People aghast at the actions of ISIS, like whodey, and not dissimilar to you, have claimed here in a spirit of plucking stuff from thin air that ISIS has killed hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people already in Iraq and in neighbouring areas, and yet is anyone seriously denying that the vast majority of their victims are anything other than Muslims of the kind ISIS disapproves of or that oppose them militarily?
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Apr '15 06:18
    Originally posted by FMF
    Like I say, it's plain daft and almost dementedly tabloid to suggest that Christian victims of some terrorists in Somali, Kenya and elsewhere are going to have any impact on the demographic trends projected in the OP.

    US drone strikes have killed 40, 50, 60 Muslims at a pop, on numerous occasions, and yet no one is claiming this is going to prolong the perio ...[text shortened]... are anything other than Muslims of the kind ISIS disapproves of or that oppose them militarily?
    CHRISTIANITY: THE MOST PERSECUTED WORLD FAITH

    Last year alone, sources indicate that an estimated 165,000 Christians died because of religious or ethnic clashes.

    About 30 active Catholic missionaries were among the persecuted Christians who died last year, according to Fides, the Vatican missionary agency. But Bernardo Cervellera, its director, said in an editorial that this number did not include the hundreds (or perhaps thousands) of Christians killed in the (Indonesian) Moluccas, the many nameless followers of Christ detained in prisons in China, in Sudan, in Rwanda, of whom nothing is known.
    Fides also reported that in the decade ending in 2000, 603 missionaries were killed in action, an increase from 115 in the previous decade. The 1994 genocide in Rwanda, in which almost 250 Catholic Church personnel were murdered, helped boost the numbers. Most of the persecution against Christians today is occurring in predominately Muslim populated countries, including Sudan, where the Islamic government is waging a decade-old war against Christians in the south. It is a battle that has seen over 2 million people killed, the majority of them Christians, and another 14 million displaced.

    I have time and again told the world that the National Islamic Front regime in Khartoum has been, and is conducting a campaign of genocide aimed at exterminating the Christian, African and non-Arab populations of Sudan in order to establish a uniform Arab-Islamic state in the heart of Africa, Bishop Macram Max Gassis, of El Obeid, Sudan, has stated. Indonesia is another of the world’s hotspots of Christian persecution. Church and human rights organisations report deterioration in the human rights situation after Indonesia ‘s first year as a democratically elected government. They also claim that the government has failed to prevent hundreds of deaths as a result of fighting between Christians and Muslims in the Moluccas. Widespread human rights abuses in communist China, where millions of underground Christians -- including Catholics loyal to the pope -- face constant persecution, has also drawn the ire of the international community. The European Parliament has condemned the abuses in China and demanded the release of all those detained or imprisoned for peacefully exercising their internationally recognised rights to freedom of belief, religion and conscience. It pointed to reports that about 50, 000 members of the Falun Gong movement were arrested over a two-year period and that almost 25, 000 are in prison, have been sent to forced labour camps and have been forcibly committed to mental hospitals. Scores of practitioners of the banned spiritual movement have died after being ill-treated or tortured while under arrest. Tensions between the Chinese government and the Vatican also continue to be strained. Many prominent clergy of the non-official Catholic Church remain in prison or have had their movements restricted. Likewise, China has a policy of expulsion and the systematic arrest of foreign Protestant priests. Hundreds of Chinese Christians, from evangelical house church members and teachers to Roman Catholic priests and bishops, are currently in ‘re-education through labour’ camps, said organisers for the International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church, founded by the WEF. Many more have been arrested and have not been heard from since, said the organisation. Despite pressure from human rights groups, however, China was successful in convincing the International Olympic Committee that Beijing should host the Olympic Games in 2008. In Egypt, the Constitution promulgated in 1980 made Christians second-class citizens even though Christian Coptics represent about 10 percent of the population. The law does not allow them to be represented politically and Christians are discriminated against in a variety of other ways. Attacks by Muslim fundamentalists against Coptic Christians are reportedly common.

    Another factor behind the increase in persecution of Christians is the increased militancy of Muslims in the Islamic belt, from Morocco eastward to the southern Philippines, as Dr. Paul Marshall, of the Centre for Religious Freedom at Freedom House in Washington, observed in a magazine article. In countries where there is direct state persecution, any non-Islamic or dissident Islamic religious expression is forbidden, he noted.


    http://www.saintanthonyofpadua.net/messaggero/pagina_stampa.asp?R=&ID=118
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Apr '15 07:46
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Indonesia is another of the world’s hotspots of Christian persecution. Church and human rights organisations report deterioration in the human rights situation after Indonesia ‘s first year as a democratically elected government. They also claim that the government has failed to prevent hundreds of deaths as a result of fighting between Christians and Muslims in the Moluccas.
    The number of Christians in Indonesia has been on the increase since its transformation to democracy. So your mention of Indonesia does not support your reply to the OP.

    It's true to say, in the inter-communal violence a decade and a half ago triggered by the power vacuum when the dictatorship and its tentacles of control collapsed, "the government [...] failed to prevent hundreds of deaths as a result of fighting between Christians and Muslims in the Moluccas".

    But what your source - surprise surprise - fails to mention is that the government also failed to prevent hundreds of Muslim deaths as a result of the inter-communal fighting between Christians and Muslims in the Moluccas and elsewhere a decade and a half ago.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Apr '15 08:57
    Originally posted by FMF
    The number of Christians in Indonesia has been on the increase since its transformation to democracy. So your mention of Indonesia does not support your reply to the OP.

    It's true to say, in the inter-communal violence a decade and a half ago triggered by the power vacuum when the dictatorship and its tentacles of control collapsed, "the government [...] fail ...[text shortened]... l fighting between Christians and Muslims in the Moluccas and elsewhere a decade and a half ago.
    Obviously, as a Christian, I would be in favor of a Christian victory in the event of a war between Christians and Muslims. If it were possible, I would prefer harmony and love between all people. However, it appears that Islam is not a religion of peace and tolerance, but one of conquest and control. 😏
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    03 Apr '15 10:241 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    It could easily become quicker than that if the Muslim extremists are allowed to continue to massacre Christians and threaten those that do not convert. 🙁
    Actually Mo was a rather peaceful early on in his life until he attained military power.

    It was only then that he turned into a power hungry murdering butcher from hell.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Apr '15 10:461 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Actually Mo was a rather peaceful early on in his life until he attained military power.

    It was only then that he turned into a power hungry murdering butcher from hell.
    That was probably because he allowed the Devil to come in and possess him.
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    03 Apr '15 15:22
    Originally posted by FMF
    I reckon in about 2070 or shortly thereafter.
    Much sooner.

    Soon there will be no Christians left in the world.
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    03 Apr '15 17:041 edit
    Numbers of Christians is not the most important matter.
    Quality is more important than Quantity in certain CRUCIAL aspects.

    I don't say NO importance is associated with Quantity at all.
    But the spirit of too much of the New Testament is on overcoming as a believer in Christ. IE. being one "who overcomes".

    To be overcoming has to be in contrast to being defeated.

    In other words we may have on earth a certain unknown number of those who believe in the Son of God. Of course God desires all men and women to be saved. But the NT places a lot of emphasis on not being a Christian who is defeated but rather being a Christian who is overcoming.

    To illustrate this I submit the seven letters to the seven churches by Christ written through John. Those are the exhortations of Jesus Christ in His ascension state to SEVEN local churches.

    At the conclusion of each letter there is something said to indicate that quite on the heart of Christ is that SOME from among the total body of saved believers would not be defeated by some surrounding degradation but would rather be those "who overcomes".

    Is Jesus concerned that the number of believers be big?
    Of course Jesus has opened the door to salvation very wide that all may be saved.

    But seven times we have the repetition of the warning to be an "overcomer" -

    1.) " To him who overcomes, to him I will give to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God ." ( 2:7)

    2.) "He who overcomes shall by no means be hurt of the second death." (2:11b)

    3.) "To him who overcomes, to him I will give to eat of the hidden manna ..." (2:17b)

    4.) "And he who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, ..." (2:26)

    5.) "He who overcomes will be clothed thus, in white garments, and I shall by no means erase his name out of the book of life ..." (3:5)

    6.) "He who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God ..." (3:12)

    7.) "He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne." (3:21)

    Do you see ? Jesus stressed here rising up to the standard of NORMALITY as a Christian. His grace is sufficient to cause each one saved to become one who is not defeated but who overcomes.

    Normality is the Quality that the New Testament focuses on here more so than Quantity. As far as Christ is concerned it is normal that the believer should overcome some kind of surrounding degradation.

    All are not called to overcome the exact SAME situation. But all are called to overcome SOME prevalent surrounding circumstances.
  14. Zugzwang
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    03 Apr '15 19:471 edit
    Originally posted by josephw to FMF
    Much sooner.
    Soon there will be no Christians left in the world.
    Why? Does JosephW have a paranoid belief about Christians being
    persecuted to death everywhere in the world?
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    03 Apr '15 20:082 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Why? Does JosephW have a paranoid belief about Christians being
    persecuted to death everywhere in the world?
    Jesus foretold of this hatred of the world for His followers because of His name's sake.

    Surely, you must have had the interest enough to read that famous 24th chapter of Matthew.

    "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name." (Matt. 24:9)

    Dust that New Testament off and read ALOUD the 24th chapter of Matthew tonight. You'll be blessed.
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