Spirituality

where do souls come from? manufactured?

sonhouse

Spirituality

23 Aug '05 20:27

sonhouse
Fast and Curious
slatington, pa, usa
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23 Aug '05 20:27
Consider this: a million years ago the human or proto-human
population was say 100,000 or so.
Now its 6 billion. Where do the new souls come from?
Does God personally insert one each soul into each fetus?
At what point in fetushood does this happen?
Does this happen with Bonobos?
Does this happen with Dolphins?
Does this happen at all?
Does a soul contain energy?
considering how many new souls are required each year
is there ever a delay in inserting souls into these fetuses?
Is there therefore the possibility of a SOULGAP?
Is there a soul making machine that does the job?
How does soul A arrive at fetus B?
Does a soul get reused?
Are there more advanced souls?
If they run out is there a SOUL'D out sign?
Do some people get left out?
If you say apes do not have souls inserted at birth
does that mean that a human who is born without a brain also
has no soul inserted at conception?
Are souls already in the sperm and eggs?
Metamorphosis
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23 Aug '05 21:451 edit
Originally posted by sonhouse
Consider this: a million years ago the human or proto-human
population was say 100,000 or so.
Now its 6 billion. Where do the new souls come from?
Does God personally insert one each soul into each fetus?
At what point in fetushood does this happen?
Does this happen with Bonobos?
Does this happen with Dolphins?
Does this happen at all?
Does a soul ...[text shortened]... out a brain also
has no soul inserted at conception?
Are souls already in the sperm and eggs?
From a purely spiritual context -- as opposed, say, to a purely intellectual context -- a more useful question might be, "what exactly is this soul?"

This is similar to the famous "Who am I?" inquiry of Advaita Vedanta or Zen. It's an essential starting point from the spiritual perspective because we have no proof that the soul even exists. For most people, it's simply a concept, nothing more, usually shrouded in beliefs of all kinds.

It would seem a good starting point to assume some sort of connection between the "soul" and consciousness. Since, after all, if the soul was not conscious, then it would be meaningless.

So a more direct question then becomes, "what is consciousness?" "What is my consciousness?" And thus, "Who am I, really?"

A famous Zen story...

An angry man approaches a Zen master. "Help me pacify my mind!" he beseeches the Zen master.

In response, the Zen master says, "first show me this mind, and then I will pacify it."

The man is momentarily perplexed. How do you "show" someone your mind? Do you just start babbling? The more he considered the question, the more he realized that he could not really define clearly what his mind was. More to the point, he realized that he could not even locate his mind.

"I don't know how to show you my mind," he replied. "I can't find it."

To which the Zen master replied, "then it is pacified."

What the parable means is that all our so-called problems are conceptual in nature and self-generated. Everything about our mind, and its assumed separate ego-identity, is nothing but an assumption. When we turn the lens of attention directly upon this mind -- upon our consciousness -- we soon begin to realize that it is not what we thought it was, and therefore, neither is our identity.

This expansion of identity, based on moving beyond the box of conditioned conceptual assumptions, is itself the direct inquiry into the question, "what is the soul, and from where do I come?"
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24 Aug '05 00:131 edit
Originally posted by sonhouse
Consider this: a million years ago the human or proto-human
population was say 100,000 or so.
Now its 6 billion. Where do the new souls come from?
Does God personally insert one each soul into each fetus?
At what point in fetushood does this happen?
Does this happen with Bonobos?
Does this happen with Dolphins?
Does this happen at all?
Does a soul ...[text shortened]... out a brain also
has no soul inserted at conception?
Are souls already in the sperm and eggs?
[i]From a biblical context, soul is simply "breath life". It is what animates a human being or animal. When a human or animal dies the soul or breath life cease to exist.
The popular religious belief that a "soul" go's to heaven or hell is erroneous.[i/]
[b]Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(KJV)[b/]
The hebrew word for soul is nephesh. It is all over Genesis and is used of creatures, trees, etc. All have "soul(nephesh). Sometimes it (nephesh) is translated soul, sometimes creature, sometimes life, etc.[*/]

flyUnity

Joined: 21 Oct '04
Moves: 17038

24 Aug '05 02:28

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[i]From a biblical context, soul is simply "breath life". It is what animates a human being or animal. When a human or animal dies the soul or breath life cease to exist.
The popular religious belief that a "soul" go's to heaven or hell is erroneous.[i/]
[b]Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nos ...[text shortened]... ephesh). Sometimes it (nephesh) is translated soul, sometimes creature, sometimes life, etc.[*/]

"Soul" has different meanings, it could mean "living life" (nephesh) or it could mean the part of you that dont die, look it up at dictionary.com

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26 Aug '05 01:35

Originally posted by flyUnity
"Soul" has different meanings, it could mean "living life" (nephesh) or it could mean the part of you that dont die, look it up at dictionary.com

Better yet ...look at the bible!

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Moves: 100919

26 Aug '05 01:39

Originally posted by flyUnity
"Soul" has different meanings, it could mean "living life" (nephesh) or it could mean the part of you that dont die, look it up at dictionary.com

Ok...I did...it also means "music" as in Motown!....again, if you want to know the biblical definition from the one who invented soul...see the bible.😉

sonhouse

Fast and Curious

Joined: 28 Dec '04
Moves: 53223

26 Aug '05 08:37

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Ok...I did...it also means "music" as in Motown!....again, if you want to know the biblical definition from the one who invented soul...see the bible.😉

I guess the bible doesn't go into the origin of souls very much nor
will it answer any of the other questions in my post. Do animals
have souls? Do sperm and eggs have souls?
Does a one day old fetus have a soul? If not, exactly when does
a fetus pick up a soul?
No-one here seems to want to even venture a guess.
Shakes you up a bit too much? Or you are so sure you don't need
to answer?

Halitose

I stink, ergo I am

Joined: 14 Jul '05
Moves: 4464

26 Aug '05 08:57

Originally posted by sonhouse
I guess the bible doesn't go into the origin of souls very much nor
will it answer any of the other questions in my post. Do animals
have souls? Do sperm and eggs have souls?
Does a one day old fetus have a soul? If not, exactly when does
a fetus pick up a soul?
No-one here seems to want to even venture a guess.
Shakes you up a bit too much? Or you are so sure you don't need
to answer?

Does a one day old fetus have a soul? If not, exactly when does a fetus pick up a soul?

I believe that at the moment of conception the zygote has a soul.

Shakes you up a bit too much? Or you are so sure you don't need
to answer?

I guess the reason being that this might kick up another abortion slugging match. 😛

sonhouse

Fast and Curious

Joined: 28 Dec '04
Moves: 53223

26 Aug '05 09:03

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]Does a one day old fetus have a soul? If not, exactly when does a fetus pick up a soul?

I believe that at the moment of conception the zygote has a soul.

Shakes you up a bit too much? Or you are so sure you don't need
to answer?

I guess the reason being that this might kick up another abortion slugging match. 😛[/b]

Ok, fair enough. What about a test tube baby? If a random
egg and sperm are put together outside a human body does it
have a soul?

Halitose

I stink, ergo I am

Joined: 14 Jul '05
Moves: 4464

26 Aug '05 09:21

Originally posted by sonhouse
Ok, fair enough. What about a test tube baby? If a random
egg and sperm are put together outside a human body does it
have a soul?

Yep. All a zygote (fertilised egg) needs to reach full maturity as a human being is nutrition, oxygen and a womb (be it synthetic).

Wouldn't a random egg and sperm if allowed to grow become a human? I don't see how artificial fertilization makes any difference.

sonhouse

Fast and Curious

Joined: 28 Dec '04
Moves: 53223

26 Aug '05 20:39

Originally posted by Halitose
Yep. All a zygote (fertilised egg) needs to reach full maturity as a human being is nutrition, oxygen and a womb (be it synthetic).

Wouldn't a random egg and sperm if allowed to grow become a human? I don't see how artificial fertilization makes any difference.

according to physics nothing can go faster than the speed of light,
so there must be some delay in getting a soul when the egg gets
fertilized. Depends on how far away the soul generator is from the
egg. If it only takes a second or two, the soul generator must be
on the moon. If it takes ten minutes or so, it might be on venus
or maybe mars....

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Joined: 08 Dec '04
Moves: 100919

27 Aug '05 00:19

Originally posted by sonhouse
I guess the bible doesn't go into the origin of souls very much nor
will it answer any of the other questions in my post. Do animals
have souls? Do sperm and eggs have souls?
Does a one day old fetus have a soul? If not, exactly when does
a fetus pick up a soul?
No-one here seems to want to even venture a guess.
Shakes you up a bit too much? Or you are so sure you don't need
to answer?

But I did answer that with the bible....ok, I wasn't thorough enough...my fault...Since soul is simply breath life, what animates a person, creatures, anything living....then anything that produces "after its kind" passes on or generates as you say breathlife....excactly when..ie., the fetus, or at what stage I don't know. I would venture to guess, for example a plant...when the seed is germinated...or in a human, at conception, because fetus's are known to move in the womb, making it alive.

Entropy13

Joined: 17 Aug '05
Moves: 141

27 Aug '05 01:24

Originally posted by checkbaiter
But I did answer that with the bible....ok, I wasn't thorough enough...my fault...Since soul is simply breath life, what animates a person, creatures, anything living....then anything that produces "after its kind" passes on or generates as you say breathlife....excactly when..ie., the fetus, or at what stage I don't know. I would venture to guess, f ...[text shortened]... ..or in a human, at conception, because fetus's are known to move in the womb, making it alive.

The difference in humans and animals is:
You ARE a spirit.
You HAVE a soul.
You live in a body.

Animals have a soul and a body. But they don't have a spirit.

Angels are like us-spirits who have souls and bodies. That's why only fallen angels and humans are consigned to hell. Not animals.

Really. It's that simple. Only a spirit being can know the difference in right and wrong. Only a spirit being chooses to rebel against its creator, and goes to hell.

Rebel if you want. Listen to Darwin if you want. Do a search on the internet about how Voltaire acted on his deathbed. PETRIFIED. Read his last words.

Then, read "Foxe's Book of Martyrs", which talks about Christians dying.

And, if that's not enough, enjoy hell! But forever is a long time to scream.

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Moves: 100919

27 Aug '05 01:44

Originally posted by Entropy13
The difference in humans and animals is:
You ARE a spirit.
You HAVE a soul.
You live in a body.

Animals have a soul and a body. But they don't have a spirit.

Angels are like us-spirits who have souls and bodies. That's why only fallen angels and humans are consigned to hell. Not animals.

Really. It's that simple. Only a spirit being can know ...[text shortened]... ristians dying.

And, if that's not enough, enjoy hell! But forever is a long time to scream.

There are many errors in your post....I am not a spirit, I have holy spirit, since Jesus is my Lord...I received holy spirit at my conversion...

I agree about animals, I never said animals have spirit, did I?

3 rd ..you are incorrect that only a spirit being can rebel against it's creator...this makes no sense to me...an unbeliever has no spirit, only body and soul.

4thly..I do not rebel against God or His son...I strongly disagree with Darwin...I have read Fox's book of Martyrs...and sorry to disappoint you I cannot go to hell even if I wanted to, since my salvation is irrevocable.

And 5thly...Hell is not forever, because if hell were forever, then an unbeliever would have to have eternal life...which he does not...he will be in hell and burn up and be no more...

frogstomp

Bruno's Ghost

Joined: 11 Sep '04
Moves: 7707

27 Aug '05 02:44

Originally posted by checkbaiter
There are many errors in your post....I am not a spirit, I have holy spirit, since Jesus is my Lord...I received holy spirit at my conversion...

I agree about animals, I never said animals have spirit, did I?

3 rd ..you are incorrect that only a spirit being can rebel against it's creator...this makes no sense to me...an unbeliever has no spirit, ...[text shortened]... have to have eternal life...which he does not...he will be in hell and burn up and be no more...

You really don't know much about in the New Testament , do you?

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