The bible says this..
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment …” (2 Peter 2:4)
“Let death seize them; let them go down alive into hell, for wickedness is in their dwellings and among them.” (Psalm 55:15)
“Her house is the way to hell, descending to the chambers of death.”(Proverbs 7:27)
“They do not lie with the mighty who are fallen of the uncircumcised, who go down to hell with their weapons of war; they have laid their swords under their heads but their iniquities will be on their bones, because of the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.” (Ezekiel 32:27)
“Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself and opened its mouth beyond measure; their glory and their multitude and their pomp, and he who is jubilant, shall descend into it. People shall be brought down, each man humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled.” (Isaiah 5:14-15)
“… then I will bring you down with those who descend into the Pit, to the people of old, and I will make you dwell in the lowest part of the earth, in places desolate from antiquity, with those who go down to the Pit, so that you may never be inhabited; and I shall establish glory in the land of the living. ‘I will make you a terror, and you shall be no more; though you are sought for, you will never be found again,’ says the Lord God. (Ezekiel 26:20-21)
“But if the Lord creates a new thing, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive in to the pit, then you will understand that these men rejected the Lord. Then it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up … So they and all those with them went down alive in the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the congregation.” (Numbers 16:30-33)
“Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit.” (Isaiah 14:15)
“For Sheol cannot thank You, death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your truth.” (Isaiah 38:18)
“… Deliver him from going down to the Pit … He will redeem his soul from going dow to the Pit, and his life shall see the light.” (Job 33:24,28)
“Let us swallow them alive like Sheol, and whole, like those who go down to the Pit…” (Proverbs 1:12)
“But those who seek my life, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.” (Psalm 63:9)
Clearly if there is a literal Hell, then the Bible indicates that is contained within the earth somewhere down in the mantle or crust.
I’ve not heard about this in any research into the earth’s structure, but I’m sure the biblical literalists will help me out…?
@divegeester
In some translations Sheol; Gehenna; and Tartarus are all incorrectly translated as Hell. Hell is the common grave (Sheol)
“Tartarus” is the actual word used in Peter, a place in Greek mythology which denotes the prison of the gods. So the thought is of being restrained to a deep locale.
I can’t tell you at this point (because I’m on holiday so my ability to research is limited) which of the books it is, but I’m fairly certain that one of the removed books of the bible (possibly Enoch) suggests that the were held under the South Pole.
@divegeester saidClearly if there is a literal Hell, then the Bible indicates that is contained within the earth somewhere down in the mantle or crust.
The bible says this..
[i]For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment …” (2 Peter 2:4)
“Let death seize them; let them go down alive into hell, for wickedness is in their dwellings and among them.” (Psalm 55:15)
“Her house is the way to hell, descending to the ch ...[text shortened]... in any research into the earth’s structure, but I’m sure the biblical literalists will help me out…?
I’ve not heard about this in any research into the earth’s structure, but I’m sure the biblical literalists will help me out…?
There is no suggestion in the Bible that hell exists as a physical place as we understand it, because of this trying to find the location would be a waste of time.
@mchill saidDid you read my OP and the raft of scriptures?
There is no suggestion in the Bible that hell exists as a physical place as we understand it, because of this trying to find the location would be a waste of time.
Or are you asserting that “hell”, and all it’s supposed literal ramifications, are in fact metaphors?
@mchill saidThe idea of Hell being a place of torment with fire and brimstone etc originated from one if the mistranslations that I have already referenced.
There is no suggestion in the Bible that hell exists as a physical place as we understand it, because of this trying to find the location would be a waste of time.
Gehenna was actually a physical place in the valley of Hinnom outside of Jerusalem. It was a refuse area where dead animals would be dumped, and kept burning with sulphur. So in that sense Hell existed, but not as a place if eternal torture. Once you are dead you are dead.
Please take a look at Ecclesiastes 9:10 - I would paste but I’m useless on a tablet.
If you look at the New King James Version it refers to the grave. In both the American and Berean translations that same word is referenced as Sheol. In the Douay (Catholic) bible it is translated as Hell. This is were the problem originates in modern Christianity. Catholicism was (maybe is) the dominant variant of Christianity, so if it gets it wrong an error becomes a fact.
@divegeester
I don’t mean to set the cat among the pigeons (yes I do) but yes. How could a god of love possibly have a place of eternal torment for his creation.
The scripture “the wages of sin is death “ covers. Death is the ultimate penalty, not eternity having a red hot poker shoved up your jaxi forever more.
The concept of eternal torment is exactly the point I was making - if the biggest exponent of a particular brand of Christianity gets it wrong the mistake becomes a fact.
@medullah saidI find this perspective on "divine" justice interesting and it is, to my way of thinking, a big weakness ~ in terms of moral coherence ~ of the torturer God ideology. I have started a thread.
The scripture “the wages of sin is death “ covers. Death is the ultimate penalty, not eternity having a red hot poker shoved up your jaxi forever more.
@medullah saidI’ve been called a heretic and other unpleasant names by Christians in here such as kellyjay … for suggesting what you are asserting here.
@divegeester
I don’t mean to set the cat among the pigeons (yes I do) but yes. How could a god of love possibly have a place of eternal torment for his creation.
Let’s see how you fair.
@fmf said@medullah: I just reread my post and realized it could be taken the wrong way. The perspective that I think is morally incoherent/weak [and therefore interesting to me] is the doctrine of "eternity having a red hot poker shoved up your jaxi" and NOT your view which is that death is the end.
I find this perspective on "divine" justice interesting and it is, to my way of thinking, a big weakness ~ in terms of moral coherence ~ of the torturer God ideology. I have started a thread.
@divegeester saidNot by me you won't be. And should we disagree in the future one would hope that name calling doesn't enter into it.
I’ve been called a heretic and other unpleasant names by Christians in here such as kellyjay … for suggesting what you are asserting here.
Let’s see how you fair.
I suspect if they could have done the Catholic church of the 1500s would have been telling everyone that newly printed bibiles was "disinformation".
The printing of the bible blew the lid on a lot of the trollop that the authoritarian religious powers were spouting which is why they didn't want anyone owning one, because once you could check up on them and discover what a load of liars they were it was only ever going to eat into their hold on people.
I stand by what i have said.
- Joined
- 06 May 15
- Moves
- 27445
@divegeester saidPerhaps you meant "fare"?
Let’s see how you fair.
It's a sad state of affairs when the English don't know their own language.