Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Telling that a name is what's important to you.
Since you and I have been arguing recently, and—
Since this is my last pass-through here for awhile, and—
Without judging what josephw was after, or not—
I tend to prefer the word “coherence” to “harmony” (well, not really: only in discourse on here when I’m trying to be almost “clinical” about it), and I tend to prefer the Hebrew word Shalom
, which implies not just peace but well-being, wholeness, harmony. But—
The realization of tathata
is also the realization of fundamental coherence, non-separability, mutuality. That is quite demonstrable ( testable). That is what meditation is all about (it is not about metaphysics!). Human behavior in violation is—as you might put it—the result of egoistic
illusion. The cure is disillusionment.
However—and this is the final loop, so to speak—illusion (maya
) is part of the game that brahman (or whatever other term you want to use) plays in the manifestation of forms (individual beings; creation in Judeo-Christian parlance). [This is all just a way of speaking.] So, ultimately, maya is brahman
An analogy: Two people play tennis. They come to the tennis court (cooperation/harmony); they agree to the rules of the game (cooperation/harmony); then—and only then—do they compete as adversaries in the game. It is when they forget the cooperation part, and treat each other solely
as adversaries—as enemies—that they become “illusioned”. We see in human history, of course, that such illusion can run deep and complex patterns. Race versus race, religion versus religion, etc., etc.
Ultimately, we are all existents in/of the same existence. The “prophets” you list saw that. Each of them expressed what they saw in terms of the cultural paradigm in which they lived—since they were speaking to real people living within those paradigms, and were more interested in the real people than in abstractions. The Buddha was really no more interested in turning Hindus into “Buddhists” than Jesus was interested in turning Jews into “Christians”. Nevertheless, as you point out...there’s another story.
Disillusionment cannot be about exchanging one thinking-paradigm for another. Disillusionment comes when one realizes the nature of existence before
all thinking, conceptualizing, words, names—what I call tathata
, “just-so-suchness”—of which I also, inseparably, am. That tathata
is the real
—before any thinking about it.
Because it is before all words, words can “touch” it only as a map can “touch” the real terrain. The map is never the real. The nature of the real cannot be judged according to one’s map(s); on the contrary, all maps must be judged according to the (dynamic) real terrain. “Gee, according to my map, that river was over there. Something’s gone wrong with the terrain here!” No, the map is just out of date (if it was accurate to begin with).
That’s enough. See ya all down the line. Be well.
EDIT: My maps, too, are only maps. My words, only words. I borrow from many maps. But the territory is just the territory. Maps are both helpful—and dispensable. The territory just is
—as it will be. That is the place to live, not in the maps—whatever names and words and concepts they use. Better to bumble along in the real territory than to spend one’s life absorbing all the details of the “right” map.