Originally posted by @dj2beckerSorry. Have you ever wondered why you would want to go to heaven? One thing I know is you lose your free will. I suspect it was a food source.
Assuming what the Bible says is true, who here believes they are good enough on their own to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? ...
Originally posted by @apathistQuestion: "Will we have free will in heaven?"
Sorry. Have you ever wondered why you would want to go to heaven? One thing I know is you lose your free will. I suspect it was a food source.
Answer: The fact that Adam and Eve had a choice to make in the Garden of Eden shows beyond all doubt that mankind was created with a free will. The first couple chose to sin, and that choice has plunged the entire world into spiritual darkness leading to our need of salvation. Through it all, mankind has retained his free will, and we will retain free will in heaven. Is it possible that people in heaven can exercise their free will to sin again and get kicked out of heaven? No, it is not possible.
To back up a bit, we need an acceptable definition of free will. We have free will, but not in the way most people think. Our freedom consists in the fact that we are free to choose according to our desires. As long as we have a minimum of two available options, we must make a choice, and we will always do so according to our strongest desire. But, in the case of a fallen sinner, he or she is not at liberty to choose according to righteousness. This is what Jesus means when He says that the one who sins “is a slave to sin” (John 8:34). This is not the language of “free will” as people typically think of it. The unregenerate person has a sinful nature; he is not just inclined to sin but driven by sinful impulses. It is perhaps helpful to say, “We are free to choose what we want but not free to want what we ought.” This greatly limits our “freedom” because the list of things we want (as sinners) coincides with whatever pleases our sinful impulses. Our choices are for things that will ultimately destroy us (Proverbs 14:12). As Paul says, “Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?” (Romans 7:24, NLT).
When we are saved, we are liberated from our natural bondage to sin. The Holy Spirit sovereignly regenerates us and in grace gives us the ability to want what we ought to want, namely, forgiveness, salvation, and the lordship of Christ. When we trust in Jesus for salvation, we begin a moral progression, a journey toward holiness in which we put to death daily the sinful impulses that reside within us and strive toward godliness. In heaven we will be completely devoid of sin; our only desires will be for the things of God—things that bless us, fulfill us, and give us life. This is true liberty (see Romans 8:21). We will retain our free will in heaven, but our will is sanctified there. The sin nature will be gone.
In heaven we are completely conformed to the image of Christ (Romans 8:28–30). Our sanctification will be finished; we will not even want to sin. Also, in heaven there is no temptation to lure us and no devil to deceive us. Unlike Adam and Eve, we will face no test; our moral state will be secure. No one will get kicked out of heaven. Just as our Lord Jesus has a truly free will yet is without sin, so will we retain a free will yet be without sin. We will be like Him (1 John 3:2).
Before salvation, our free will on earth is limited by our inability to choose what is right. After salvation, our free will struggles between choosing what is right and what is wrong. In heaven our free will is limited by our inability to choose what is wrong. In our glorified state, we will exercise our free will to choose what is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, and admirable (see Philippians 4:8).
https://www.gotquestions.org/free-will-in-heaven.html
Originally posted by @dj2beckerPermit me to answer for rajk:
Of what use is your doctrine on salvation if you can't know whether you are saved or not?
Jesus will judge. You are a goat. I am a sheep. The sheep hear Jesus’ voice and follow him. Goats are cast out.
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Originally posted by @romans1009'Jesus will judge' and 'you are a goat' seem a little contradictory.
Permit me to answer for rajk:
Jesus will judge. You are a goat. I am a sheep. The sheep hear Jesus’ voice and follow him. Goats are cast out.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerThis is exactly why we cannot converse. You are a church Christian and your mentality is ruled by the doctrine of the church and the pastors. I am a Christian who has [because of false doctrines an hypocrisy in the church] removed myself from the church and has since over 40 yrs sought the truth from the Bible with Gods guidance.
Of what use is your doctrine on salvation if you can't know whether you are saved or not?
The doctrine of salvation as preached hy Christ and the Apostles does not have as it prime aim to tell the Christian whether they are saved or not. First of all Christians misuse this word 'saved', a point I have raised in the past but your ignore it. Paul used these words carefully in his letters and 'saved' means something different from 'eternal life'.
The doctrine of salvation is about the following;
- it describes who Jesus Christ is ie the Son of God
- it explains the role of Jesus death in the redemption of mankind from their sins
- it lists the details of the saving process as follows :-
- Saved by the blood of Christ through faith
- Living in righteousness according to the commandments of Christ
- it describes the punishment and rewards associated with the life lived by the follower.
The only time there is any assurance of eternal life is when one is classified as a sheep of Christ which Jesus described as those who follow Him, who hear his voice, and follow his commandments.
The obsession Christianity has with being assured with whether or not they are saved is their downfall. They have fabricated doctrines which they claim is in the bible that they have this eternal assurance but by doing so have ignored the parts which warn against this very same complacency in their lifestyle.
If you would like to discuss these things in a mature fashion I am game but if you choose insults and ridicule then this is my last post in this thread. I expect the latter would be the case.
Originally posted by @rajk999“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
This is exactly why we cannot converse. You are a church Christian and your mentality is ruled by the doctrine of the church and the pastors. I am a Christian who has [because of false doctrines an hypocrisy in the church] removed myself from the church and has since over 40 yrs sought the truth from the Bible with Gods guidance.
The doctrine of salvati ...[text shortened]... ts and ridicule then this is my last post in this thread. I expect the latter would be the case.
(John 3:16)
Originally posted by @rajk999“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
This is exactly why we cannot converse. You are a church Christian and your mentality is ruled by the doctrine of the church and the pastors. I am a Christian who has [because of false doctrines an hypocrisy in the church] removed myself from the church and has since over 40 yrs sought the truth from the Bible with Gods guidance.
The doctrine of salvati ...[text shortened]... ts and ridicule then this is my last post in this thread. I expect the latter would be the case.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.”
(Romans 10:9-11)