Who is to blame for our 'sin nature'

Originally posted by twhitehead
So am I correct that you do not feel responsible for contracting this 'lung cancer' known as original sin? What about when you sin yourself? Can you blame your 'sin nature' and thus shirk some of the responsibility?

It is very simple, smoking causes lung cancer. Everybody knows this, there are a lot of evidence supporting it, but people just don't give a damn. The same with people sinning, they all know it can't be good, but they just keep on and on and on.

Edit: who do you want to blame for making YOUR decisions?

Originally posted by JS357
If you want to retreat from the idea that your proposed solution meets the standards by which we test proposed treatments for maladies like lung cancer, that's OK by me. Your analogy fails, that's all. Maybe you could use a lot of different analogies, and maybe they all fail. Analogies are never a good argument anyway. They only appeal to the already convinced.

Analogies are never a good argument anyway
...especially if people like you are getting too technical - then it is pointless arguing with a hard head.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It is very relevant because it affects whether or not you take responsibility and how you go about correcting the behaviour or not. My claim here is that Christians generally show less guilt/remorse/personal responsibility for bad behaviour and thus are less likely to correct that behaviour and also find comfort in a theology that lets them shift the blam ...[text shortened]... ctually admit responsibility for those sins and prefer to blame Satan or their 'sin nature'.

Maybe the so called christians are not Christians. You don't know me or any of the Christians I know, and thus you are right in saying what you said, cause you really have not met an real Christian.

I think Stellspalfie has put up a good argument here; one which I haven't come across before, and that is
why did god not create the Earth as heaven is now?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I think Stellspalfie has put up a good argument here; one which I haven't come across before, and that is
[b]why did god not create the Earth as heaven is now?[/b]

That is a compound question. Heaven has only spirit beings, earth has fleshly beings.
Why exactly, I don't know, but I know this , rebellion happened in both heaven and earth.

Originally posted by twhitehead

I have often argued that I am not to blame for something built in to me by my creator or imposed on me because of something one of my ancestors did. I was thinking about this and I realized this might explain part of the attraction of Christianity. A Christian can deny responsibility for his actions by labelling his misbehaviour as part of his 'sin natu no change in their behaviour they can essentially blame God for not doing anything about it.

Distill it, Twit.

The woman was deceived.
Adam sinned by choice.
We have an OSN in our genes.
It throws up temptations.
We choose which
to surrender to and which
to resist.

So, 'argue' no more.
That's the truth of it.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I think Stellspalfie has put up a good argument here; one which I haven't come across before, and that is
[b]why did god not create the Earth as heaven is now?[/b]

That is a another one of the mysteries of God that God has yet to reveal to me. 😏

Originally posted by twhitehead
I have often argued that I am not to blame for something built in to me by my creator or imposed on me because of something one of my ancestors did. I was thinking about this and I realized this might explain part of the attraction of Christianity. A Christian can deny responsibility for his actions by labelling his misbehaviour as part of his 'sin nature ...[text shortened]... no change in their behaviour they can essentially blame God for not doing anything about it.

One other thing that was not mentioned here is that the new birth also involves repentance. That is to turn 180 degrees around, from a sin filled life to a sinless life. We are to do our best and God through His gift of holy spirit helps us along the way. Do we fall sometimes? Absolutely! But we confess our sin and get back up and learn from our mistakes and move on.
It has been said that the new birth is like a child learning to walk, stumble and get back up.

Originally posted by Nicksten
[b]Analogies are never a good argument anyway
...especially if people like you are getting too technical - then it is pointless arguing with a hard head.[/b]

It's pointless for you to defend a weak analogy, although it's not pointless for me to criticize it. I think I made my point.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That is a compound question. Heaven has only spirit beings, earth has fleshly beings.
Why exactly, I don't know, but I know this , rebellion happened in both heaven and earth.

Why a rebellion in heaven if heaven is perfect.
Makes no sense as usual.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Why a rebellion in heaven if heaven is perfect.
Makes no sense as usual.

When Lucifer was cast down to Earth..

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is a another one of the mysteries of God that God has yet to reveal to me. 😏

I meditate on this regularly and I have come up with my own reason for it. The bible doesn't say it, but it is what I imagine.

I think God enjoys watching all this play out. Sort of like (for lack of an appropriately Godly comparison) watching your favorite movie.

In fact, when people ask why God allows evil, I often go back to this analogy. Imagine your favorite movie is a classic good vs. evil movie. As most of these kinds of movies go, the good guy gets sand kicked in his face.. humiliated.. beaten down... and almost completely broken. Then in the end, he rises up triumphantly and takes one last stand against the bad guy, who by now has the good guy's woman all tied up (after having been tortured)... and finally the good guy says something really perfect and cliché, and blows the bad guy's head off.

Now... most of us, gain an extreme sense of satisfaction when this happens.

But, if you take it all out of context and think about it months later, someone could take you to task for it. "What? You take satisfaction in the killing of another human being? You are a sick, twisted, evil person!!!!" And on it goes.

And there is such intense satisfaction in watching that bad s.o.b. get his head blown off, that even when you watch the movie for the 10th time, you STILL get a hair-raising chill and rush of adrenaline in satisfaction when it happens.

In my own personal thoughts, I think God gets the same satisfaction when evil entities are put in their place... even if it means a little blood is spilled.

I'm not trying to teach this and don't mind that no one agrees with me, I'm only sharing my personal, innermost thoughts with you. And I've left myself vulnerable in doing so, but it is what it is.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Why a rebellion in heaven if heaven is perfect.
Makes no sense as usual.

Whoever said heaven, and everything and everyone that ever lived within it, is perfect?

The only thing or being wholly and completely perfect is God. Anything or anyone created by God, would necessarily be less than God, i.e. imperfect. Angels are imperfect beings.

Originally posted by sumydid
I meditate on this regularly and I have come up with my own reason for it. The bible doesn't say it, but it is what I imagine.

I think God enjoys watching all this play out. Sort of like (for lack of an appropriately Godly comparison) watching your favorite movie.

In fact, when people ask why God allows evil, I often go back to this analogy. Imagine ...[text shortened]... thoughts with you. And I've left myself vulnerable in doing so, but it is what it is.

All us Christians will be cheering for that movies end, when it plays out at the coming of our great God and Savior, the Lord Christ Jesus. That bad guy and his minions will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone at the cheering of the saints.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
All us Christians will be cheering for that movies end, when it plays out at the coming of our great God and Savior, the Lord Christ Jesus. That bad guy and his minions will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone at the cheering of the saints.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

So then... are we immoral for looking forward to that great and terrible time? From most skeptic's viewpoint (the ones I talk to anyway), we are utterly evil to look forward to anyone's destruction, no matter who they are.

So I point to the good vs. evil movie. Even (most) Atheists cheer when the baddy gets his head blown off.

The bible said we human beings were made in God's image. So our satisfaction in seeing justice served against evil, I think just reflects God's thirst for justice.

But then you get to the inevitable argument from the skeptic that takes great insult at being considered bad or evil for rejecting God... afterall... they are just doing what they think is right and if it's not right, it's not their fault, it's the Creator's fault for making them that way.

Ok, then following the same logic, when the bad guy does all those bad things in the movie, kidnaps the girl, tortures her, ties her up, and nearly kills the good guy... well.. it's not really his fault that he did all that. We need to go back to his childhood and figure out what went wrong, and blame the parents and the environment, and let this bad guy walk the streets free... poor guy, we should give him a gold star for his behavior and encourage and comfort him.

And so on. Ad infinitum. Ad nauseum.