1. Account suspended
    Joined
    11 Dec '04
    Moves
    729
    25 Mar '05 15:58
    religious fanatics are people who give up their whole life for religion. you know what, Bush is an evangelical christian and all these fanatics follow him even though he is a complete idiot. I have some advice for all you fanatics and "cough" "cough" Darfius: GET A LIFE!!!
  2. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
    Joined
    27 Mar '03
    Moves
    17242
    25 Mar '05 16:02
    Is this abuse?

    P
  3. Standard memberAlcra
    Lazy Sod
    Everywhere
    Joined
    12 Oct '04
    Moves
    8623
    25 Mar '05 16:04
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    Is this abuse?

    P
    Is what abuse? The post by lilnicky123, or Religious fanatics?


    😀
  4. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
    Joined
    27 Mar '03
    Moves
    17242
    25 Mar '05 16:06
    Originally posted by Alcra
    Is what abuse? The post by lilnicky123, or Religious fanatics?


    😀
    🙄
  5. Account suspended
    Joined
    11 Dec '04
    Moves
    729
    25 Mar '05 16:08
    I guess its meant to be abuse and to start conversation
  6. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
    Joined
    27 Mar '03
    Moves
    17242
    25 Mar '05 16:43
    Originally posted by lilnicky123
    I guess its meant to be abuse and to start conversation
    Well, you might as well change your profile....

    That ain't cool!

    Bwha!

    P
  7. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
    Joined
    22 Dec '04
    Moves
    41172
    25 Mar '05 20:50
    Originally posted by lilnicky123
    religious fanatics are people who give up their whole life for religion. you know what, Bush is an evangelical christian and all these fanatics follow him even though he is a complete idiot. I have some advice for all you fanatics and "cough" "cough" Darfius: GET A LIFE!!!
    I have a life. An eternal life.

    Tell me, why is Bush an idiot? You do realize the NY Times admitted that Iraq smuggled WMD out of Iraq, right? I mean, you are aware of all the facts, correct?

    I am not a "fanatic." My faith is quite within reason. I do not give up my life for religion. I give up my life of sin for the love of Jesus Christ.

  8. Donationbbarr
    Chief Justice
    Center of Contention
    Joined
    14 Jun '02
    Moves
    17381
    25 Mar '05 21:011 edit
    Originally posted by Darfius
    You do realize the NY Times admitted that Iraq smuggled WMD out of Iraq, right? I mean, you are aware of all the facts, correct?
    Do you happen to remember when the Times ran this story?

    Edit: This is the last thing I found from the Times that speaks directly to the WMD issue.


    NATIONAL DESK | October 7, 2004, Thursday

    THE ISSUE OF WAR: INSPECTOR'S JUDGMENT; U.S. REPORT FINDS IRAQIS ELIMINATED ILLICIT ARMS IN 90's

    By DOUGLAS JEHL (NYT) 1812 words
    Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 1 , Column 5

    Correction Appended

    ABSTRACT - Report by top American weapons inspector Charles A Duelfer says Iraq, under pressure from United Nations, 'essentially destroyed' its illicit weapons stockpiles months after Persian Gulf war in 1991, and its ability to produce such weapons had significantly eroded by time of American invasion in 2003; says its last secret factory, biological weapons plant, was eliminated in 1996; says Saddam Hussein had in effect sacrificed Iraq's illicit weapons in effort to win end to UN sanctions; says he used period between 1991 and 2003 to try to exploit avenues opened by sanctions, especially oil-for-food program, to lay groundwork for plan to resume weapons production if sanctions were lifted; finds no evidence that Iraq tried to restart those programs; findings uphold Iraq's prewar insistence that it did not possess chemical or biological weapons; they also show enormous distance between Bush administration's own prewar assertions, based on reports by American intelligence agencies, and what Duelfer's 15-month inquiry found since war; photos; excerpts from report (L)



    So, are you claiming that sometime after this story ran, after October of last year, the Times reported that Iraq smuggled WMD out of the country? If so, I'd appreciate a citation, because I've been searching through the archives and I can find no such story.
  9. Joined
    17 Mar '04
    Moves
    82844
    25 Mar '05 21:16
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Do you happen to remember when the Times ran this story?

    Edit: This is the last thing I found from the Times that speaks directly to the WMD issue.


    I found this article from 1/12/05.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/international/middleeast/12cnd-wmd.html?ex=1111899600&en=6e17771799faadfc&ei=5070
  10. Donationbbarr
    Chief Justice
    Center of Contention
    Joined
    14 Jun '02
    Moves
    17381
    25 Mar '05 21:26
    Originally posted by eagles54
    I found this article from 1/12/05.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/international/middleeast/12cnd-wmd.html?ex=1111899600&en=6e17771799faadfc&ei=5070
    Thanks for that. Here's the relevant portion. I've bolded the parts that Darfius should read slowly:

    Search for Illicit Weapons in Iraq Ends
    By BRIAN KNOWLTON,
    International Herald Tribune

    Published: January 12, 2005


    ASHINGTON, Jan. 12 - The White House confirmed today that the search in Iraq for the banned weapons it had cited as justifying the war that ousted Saddam Hussein has been quietly ended after nearly two years, with no evidence of their existence.

    That means that the conclusions of an interim report last fall by the leader of the weapons hunt, Charles A. Duelfer, will stand. That report undercut prewar administration contentions that Iraq possessed biological and chemical weapons, was building a nuclear capability and might share weapons with Al Qaeda. A White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, insisted today that the war was justified. He rejected the suggestion that the administration's credibility had been gravely wounded in ways that could weaken its future response to perceived threats.

    The administration appeared to be dropping today even the suggestion that banned weapons might be deeply buried or well hidden in Iraq. Mr. McClellan said that President Bush had already concluded, after the October release of an interim report from Mr. Duelfer, "that the weapons that we all believed were there, based on the intelligence, were not there."

    (Note, this quote above is from Bush).-BB

    Some administration officials have suggested that some arms might have been moved out of Iraq, perhaps to Syria. But Mr. McClellan appeared to rule that out.

    (Note that these unnamed officials are not claiming that WMD was smuggled, merely that it might have been, and that the White House is claiming that that did not happen). -BB

    Democrats immediately called for Mr. Bush to explain how he and his advisers could have insisted so confidently that dangerous stocks of the banned weapons existed inside Iraq. Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the Democratic leader of the House, said the president needed to explain why he was "so wrong, for so long."


    Darfius, are you just making this stuff up?

  11. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
    Joined
    22 Dec '04
    Moves
    41172
    25 Mar '05 21:261 edit
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Do you happen to remember when the Times ran this story?

    Edit: This is the last thing I found from the Times that speaks directly to the WMD issue.


    NATIONAL DESK | October 7, 2004, Thursday

    THE ISSUE OF WAR: INSPECTOR'S JUDGME ...[text shortened]... been searching through the archives and I can find no such story.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?ex=1111899600&en=c3f80439f7d08b55&ei=5070

    AGHDAD, Iraq, March 12 - In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons of machinery from Saddam Hussein's most important weapons installations, including some with high-precision equipment capable of making parts for nuclear arms, a senior Iraqi official said this week in the government's first extensive comments on the looting.


    The Iraqi official, Sami al-Araji, the deputy minister of industry, said it appeared that a highly organized operation had pinpointed specific plants in search of valuable equipment, some of which could be used for both military and civilian applications, and carted the machinery away.

    Dr. Araji said his account was based largely on observations by government employees and officials who either worked at the sites or lived near them.

    "They came in with the cranes and the lorries, and they depleted the whole sites," Dr. Araji said. "They knew what they were doing; they knew what they want. This was sophisticated looting."

    The threat posed by these types of facilities was cited by the Bush administration as a reason for invading Iraq, but the installations were left largely unguarded by allied forces in the chaotic months after the invasion.

    Dr. Araji's statements came just a week after a United Nations agency disclosed that approximately 90 important sites in Iraq had been looted or razed in that period.

    Satellite imagery analyzed by two United Nations groups - the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, or Unmovic - confirms that some of the sites identified by Dr. Araji appear to be totally or partly stripped, senior officials at those agencies said. Those officials said they could not comment on all of Dr. Araji's assertions, because the groups had been barred from Iraq since the invasion.

    For nearly a year, the two agencies have sent regular reports to the United Nations Security Council detailing evidence of the dismantlement of Iraqi military installations and, in a few cases, the movement of Iraqi gear to other countries. In addition, a report issued last October by the chief American arms inspector in Iraq, Charles A. Duelfer, told of evidence of looting at crucial sites.

    The disclosures by the Iraqi ministry, however, added new information about the thefts, detailing the timing, the material taken and the apparent skill shown by the thieves.

    Dr. Araji said equipment capable of making parts for missiles as well as chemical, biological and nuclear arms was missing from 8 or 10 sites that were the heart of Iraq's dormant program on unconventional weapons. After the invasion, occupation forces found no unconventional arms, and C.I.A. inspectors concluded that the effort had been largely abandoned after the Persian Gulf war in 1991.

    Dr. Araji said he had no evidence regarding where the equipment had gone. But his account raises the possibility that the specialized machinery from the arms establishment that the war was aimed at neutralizing had made its way to the black market or was in the hands of foreign governments.

    "Targeted looting of this kind of equipment has to be seen as a proliferation threat," said Gary Milhollin, director of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, a private nonprofit organization in Washington that tracks the spread of unconventional weapons.

    Dr. Araji said he believed that the looters themselves were more interested in making money than making weapons.

    The United Nations, worried that the material could be used in clandestine bomb production, has been hunting for it, largely unsuccessfully, across the Middle East. In one case, investigators searching through scrap yards in Jordan last June found specialized vats for highly corrosive chemicals that had been tagged and monitored as part of the international effort to keep watch on the Iraqi arms program. The vessels could be used for harmless industrial processes or for making chemical weapons.

  12. Donationbbarr
    Chief Justice
    Center of Contention
    Joined
    14 Jun '02
    Moves
    17381
    25 Mar '05 21:391 edit
    Originally posted by Darfius
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?ex=1111899600&en=c3f80439f7d08b55&ei=5070

    AGHDAD, Iraq, March 12 - In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons o ...[text shortened]... harmless industrial processes or for making chemical weapons.

    Oh my God. Did you even read that article? The article isn't claiming that Iraq smuggled weapons from Irag, it is claiming that equiptment for that could be used for making weapons was looted by thieves. Did you read the part in the article where it makes it clear that the U.S. weapons inspectors were aware of this looting prior to issuing their final report that there was no existing weapons program nor any WMD?

    Here's an exercise for you: Try and find one thing in the following abstract of the final report of the U.S. weapons inspectors (which the Bush administration itself has corroborated) that is contradicted by anything in the article you cite:

    ABSTRACT - Report by top American weapons inspector Charles A Duelfer says Iraq, under pressure from United Nations, 'essentially destroyed' its illicit weapons stockpiles months after Persian Gulf war in 1991, and its ability to produce such weapons had significantly eroded by time of American invasion in 2003; says its last secret factory, biological weapons plant, was eliminated in 1996; says Saddam Hussein had in effect sacrificed Iraq's illicit weapons in effort to win end to UN sanctions; says he used period between 1991 and 2003 to try to exploit avenues opened by sanctions, especially oil-for-food program, to lay groundwork for plan to resume weapons production if sanctions were lifted; finds no evidence that Iraq tried to restart those programs; findings uphold Iraq's prewar insistence that it did not possess chemical or biological weapons; they also show enormous distance between Bush administration's own prewar assertions, based on reports by American intelligence agencies, and what Duelfer's 15-month inquiry found since war; photos; excerpts from report (L)

  13. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39559
    25 Mar '05 21:391 edit
    Originally posted by Darfius
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?ex=1111899600&en=c3f80439f7d08b55&ei=5070

    AGHDAD, Iraq, March 12 - In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons o ...[text shortened]... harmless industrial processes or for making chemical weapons.

    Your statement was : You do realize the NY Times admitted that Iraq smuggled WMD out of Iraq, right?


    Please show me anywhere in the article you just cited where it says IRAQ SMUGGLED WMD OUT OF IRAQ. It's no wonder why you believe Daniel's prophecies are "100% accurate"; you read with your preconceptions, not with your eyes and mind.
  14. Copenhagen
    Joined
    31 May '04
    Moves
    6955
    25 Mar '05 21:41
    Originally posted by Darfius
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?ex=1111899600&en=c3f80439f7d08b55&ei=5070

    BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 12 - In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons of machinery from Saddam Hussein's most important weapons installations, including some with high-precision equipment c ...[text shortened]... aqi official said this week in the government's first extensive comments on the looting.


    I'm a little puzzled. Are you quoting this article as an argument FOR your believes?
    If anything this article shows how idiotic this war has been. First the US government claims Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction, but latoer on has to admit there aren't any, and after the war the same US fails to protect the arms factories in Iraq, and thus supplying terrorist with valuable means and tools to produce dangerous weapons.
  15. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
    Joined
    22 Dec '04
    Moves
    41172
    25 Mar '05 22:48
    Whoops! I actually was planning on editing to add that I was mistaken and misinformed by this source:

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/13/101911.shtml

    But I had to go get the pizza. Hehe. It appears I've found another questionable source. Sorry for the misinformation.
Back to Top