01 Apr 12
Originally posted by sonhouseGlad to hear things turned out so well.
Well it seems my demise was overstated. I was definitely in bad shape, could literally not walk unless my leg was totally straight. Went to ER, they prodded and poked, which, surprisingly, did not hurt, only hurt when they bent my leg below knee, put me on a brace, a nice cloth and velcro affair with a couple of metal sticks in place to limit knee movement, ...[text shortened]... lso know there was no god involved. Just an injury that wasn't as bad as it first appeared.
Are you going to need any treatment beyond what you've already had?
01 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI'll know more in a few days, if I continue on the same path as the last few hours I might not even need the brace come monday when I have to go to work.
Glad to hear things turned out so well.
Are you going to need any treatment beyond what you've already had?
It's funny, I sent my boss a tearful email telling him how I had let down the crew on our project, at a critical juncture and was probably going under the knife. Now feel a bit embarrassed.
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by sonhouseThat's great.
I'll know more in a few days, if I continue on the same path as the last few hours I might not even need the brace come monday when I have to go to work.
It's funny, I sent my boss a tearful email telling him how I had let down the crew on our project, at a critical juncture and was probably going under the knife. Now feel a bit embarrassed.
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by SwissGambitSo in Exodus 21:2-6, we see that on the 7th year a slave will go free and if that slave has a wife and children, he is free to leave but will also leave them behind, unless he wishes to stay, in which case he can if he loves them.
Leviticus 25:44-46
Exodus 21:2-6
Exodus 21:7-11
Exodus 21:20-21
Exodus 7-11 says that if a man sell then sells the daughter to be a maidservant and she does not please her master, then he will let her be redeemed to sell her to a starnge nation. If he gives her in marriage to her son, then he must treat her as a wife.
Exodus 21:20-21 is rather confusing. At first it says that if a master kills his slave he shall surely be punished, but if he continue a day or two, then he will not be punished because the slave was his money. I don't know what continued for a day or two means. The bit about the slave being his money makes some sense, however, because it would be silly for a master to kill a slave because the slave is free labor.
Leviticus 25:44-46 speaks of buying "starngers" in the land as slaves. It does not make clear as to whether they too are freed in 7 years.
To sum up, Christ did not agree fully with all the Mosaic edicts either since he petitioned for the woman in caught in adultery to be shown mercy instead of stoned. He also challenged their notion that he broke the Sabbath by healing on the Sabbath. Christ taught us that the spirit of the law superceeded the letter of the law.
What can I say, the world was a much darker place during the Mosaic times. The Ten Commandments were a breath of fresh air compared to the rest of the ancient world. In fact, the Ten Commandments came directly from God as it was supposidly written by his very finger. The odd thing is though that there were originally no penalties for transgressing these commandments.
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyIt is time for the theists in the thread to stop trying to push two contradictory arguments.
To sum up, Christ did not agree fully with all the Mosaic edicts either since he petitioned for the woman in caught in adultery to be shown mercy instead of stoned. He also challenged their notion that he broke the Sabbath by healing on the Sabbath. Christ taught us that the spirit of the law superceeded the letter of the law.
What can I say, the world ...[text shortened]... dd thing is though that there were originally no penalties for transgressing these commandments.
1. The slavery condoned in the Bible really wasn't that bad considering how bad everyone else was - therefore its OK.
2. The New Testament cancels out all that horrible stuff in the Old Testament so lets all ignore that horrible old Testament stuff.
I think you need to clearly, openly and honestly state:
a) was slavery as condoned in the Old Testament morally right or wrong?
b) did the commands in the OT condoning slavery come from God?
c) did Jesus condemn it?
d) would Jesus have condoned it?
What can I say, the world was a much darker place during the Mosaic times.
You just live in a bright spot in the current world. The rest of the world is not as rosy as you think.
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeySo today is much brighter and lighter place then back in biblical times? Try looking up slavery in Mauritania:
So in Exodus 21:2-6, we see that on the 7th year a slave will go free and if that slave has a wife and children, he is free to leave but will also leave them behind, unless he wishes to stay, in which case he can if he loves them.
Exodus 7-11 says that if a man sell then sells the daughter to be a maidservant and she does not please her master, then he wil ...[text shortened]... thing is though that there were originally no penalties for transgressing these commandments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mauritania
20% of the population, over a half million people, are slaves there right now and a similar situation in Sudan. So tell THEM how rosy it is now compared to biblical days.
And they justify it based on religious grounds, in this case Islam.
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01 Apr 12
Originally posted by sonhouseI am really glad that your ok.
Well it seems my demise was overstated. I was definitely in bad shape, could literally not walk unless my leg was totally straight. Went to ER, they prodded and poked, which, surprisingly, did not hurt, only hurt when they bent my leg below knee, put me on a brace, a nice cloth and velcro affair with a couple of metal sticks in place to limit knee movement, ...[text shortened]... lso know there was no god involved. Just an injury that wasn't as bad as it first appeared.
I am however still horrified that you have to live in fear of having your life destroyed by one tiny slip due
to your countries appallingly bad healthcare system.
It brings home how selfish and callous the people are who complain about 'socialised medicine'.
01 Apr 12
4 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadGod did not mention slavery in the Ten Commandments nor did Christ mention slavery, yet I am expected to defend it because Mosaic law allowed it?
It is time for the theists in the thread to stop trying to push two contradictory arguments.
1. The slavery condoned in the Bible really wasn't that bad considering how bad everyone else was - therefore its OK.
2. The New Testament cancels out all that horrible stuff in the Old Testament so lets all ignore that horrible old Testament stuff.
I think y ...[text shortened]... live in a bright spot in the current world. The rest of the world is not as rosy as you think.
Like it or not, the world at that time WAS a much darker place as most experienced slavery in some form or another. The Jews are just one example of this for some 400 years in Egypt. Personally, I view Israelite slavery at the time as a way to survive verses modern day slavery or even Egyptian slavery where men are trying to exploit slaves for riches.
From the perspective of Christ, one could become free spiritually and in ones own mind and still be a "slave". This is not to say that physical bondage is not a concern to the Almighty, rather, it is a secondary concern. Consider the Children of Israel for a second. They were in bondage as I said for over 400 years. Why did God wait so long to "set them free"? That is a good question, and one can only speculate. Perhaps it was a "safe place" to grow a nation. Although there is hard labor, you are protected by the most powerful nation on earth so that your numbers can grow unabated. Even so, God did not turn a blind eye to their physical suffering. He eventually set them free.
Speaking as a follower of Christ, I can tell you that the issue has zero impact on me being a Christian. Do I have all the answers? No. If I did I would be God. All I know is that I agree with the teachings of Christ even though it is not an easy road to hoe at times. For example, turning the cheek is rather difficult at times for which I have failed multiple times. I can only imagine how much harder it would be to be a slave and do the same. Then again, Christians are referred to as slaves of Christ. It is a reminder that our life is not our own.
So there ya go, I guess Christianity does endorse slavery. 😛
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by sonhouseSlaves are 20% of the poplulation? If memory serves, in the Roman Empire slaves were well over 50%. In fact, Spartacus is a reminder of just how many were in bondage and the danger than can represent for the elitist class.
So today is much brighter and lighter place then back in biblical times? Try looking up slavery in Mauritania:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mauritania
20% of the population, over a half million people, are slaves there right now and a similar situation in Sudan. So tell THEM how rosy it is now compared to biblical days.
And they justify it based on religious grounds, in this case Islam.
01 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyNo, I have not asked you to defend it, yet you seem to be doing so. I am just asking you to be clear on whether or not you are defending it, and what your opinion of it is.
God did not mention slavery in the Ten Commandments nor did Christ mention slavery, yet I am expected to defend it because Mosaic law allowed it?
Like it or not, the world at that time WAS a much darker place as most experienced slavery in some form or another.
I don't believe that.
The Jews are just one example of this for some 400 years in Egypt.
Or so they claim
Personally, I view Israelite slavery at the time as a way to survive verses modern day slavery or even Egyptian slavery where men are trying to exploit slaves for riches.
So do you or do you not see it as having been morally wrong. Or are you trying to give excuses without actually giving your stance on the matter?
So there ya go, I guess Christianity does endorse slavery. 😛
Yet I see you are unwilling to give a straight forward answer to my questions. Does Christianity endorse dishonesty too?
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadSlavery, in many forms, is a sin condition. So long as sin remains slavery will remain. Jesus once said that he who sins is a slave of sin. I think we have all experienced an addiction of some kind that we know is "bad" for us. It is like a dog returning to his puke and that is what he came to break.
No, I have not asked you to defend it, yet you seem to be doing so. I am just asking you to be clear on whether or not you are defending it, and what your opinion of it is.
[b]Like it or not, the world at that time WAS a much darker place as most experienced slavery in some form or another.
I don't believe that.
The Jews are just one exampl ...[text shortened]... ng to give a straight forward answer to my questions. Does Christianity endorse dishonesty too?
As a result, I view my faith as being the only antidote to slavery and I think its influence has improved the state of mankind on many levels.
So just think if we got rid of all forms of slavery. That would mean that all sin has left the world. Where then would that leave sinners like you and I?
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadBut the ancient world was much darker.
You just live in a bright spot in the current world. The rest of the world is not as rosy as you think.[/b]
http://history.howstuffworks.com/american-civil-was/slavery1.htm
"Ancient peoples of many different civilizations practiced some form of slavery, and in many areas - such as Egypt, Bablyonia, Assyria, Greece, Rome, India, and China, it was an established institution. The Greek philosophers Aristotle and Plato regarded mastery over the weak by the strong as natural and inevitable. Slaves made up a significant part of the population of Athens in the 4rth century BC and were an integral element of social and economic life. The military society of Sparta could not have existed without its slave laborers, the Helots.......during the reign of Emporor Trajan, one out of 3 persons in Rome was a slave......"
So this is the environement the Ten Commandments was given. It was revelutionary, as men were afforded one day of rest. My faith celebrates those that help the weak and the poor. In fact, the majority of the Bible is focused on these things. So give the Bible it's proper kudos for helping to go against what is "natural". It may nave not changed the world overnight, but a change has begun. It began with the Ten Commandments and it was accelerated by Jesus.
So go ahead and continue to attack the religion that dares to combat all forms of slavery.
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyAh, so that makes it ok? It sounds to me like you are jealous you don't have a slave or two yourself.
Slaves are 20% of the poplulation? If memory serves, in the Roman Empire slaves were well over 50%. In fact, Spartacus is a reminder of just how many were in bondage and the danger than can represent for the elitist class.
01 Apr 12
Originally posted by sonhouseIt's like this, Jesus went around helping the poor and ministering to the poor, however, he said the poor will you have with you always.
Ah, so that makes it ok? It sounds to me like you are jealous you don't have a slave or two yourself.
Until sin is removed from the world in its entirety, there will be no utopia. If you then insist on having a utopia, free of poverty and slavery, then your utopia will get swallowed up by reality. That is not to say we should not combat slavery and poverty, rather, it merely means you must find a way to work in the midst of it.