1. Joined
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    07 Nov '15 00:01
    Theists here [well everywhere] often ask why atheists should care about what they
    believe, and why they should care about how they act.

    Christians in particular also frequently harp on about how they are being persecuted.

    So I thought I would post a link to an article that shows exactly why we do and should
    care, and about who is actually getting persecuted.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/11/christianity_forced_on_public_school_students_in_louisiana.html
  2. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    07 Nov '15 01:32
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Theists here [well everywhere] often ask why atheists should care about what they
    believe, and why they should care about how they act.

    Christians in particular also frequently harp on about how they are being persecuted.

    So I thought I would post a link to an article that shows exactly why we do and should
    care, and about who is actually getti ...[text shortened]... alth_and_science/science/2015/11/christianity_forced_on_public_school_students_in_louisiana.html
    Yes.
    The biggest threat any religion poses is indoctrination of the young.
    Our local Christian school on a visit to the museum were told to
    ignore the information on the fossils "because we know it's wrong".
  3. Joined
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    07 Nov '15 06:46
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Theists here [well everywhere] often ask why atheists should care about what they
    believe, and why they should care about how they act.

    Christians in particular also frequently harp on about how they are being persecuted.

    So I thought I would post a link to an article that shows exactly why we do and should
    care, and about who is actually getti ...[text shortened]... alth_and_science/science/2015/11/christianity_forced_on_public_school_students_in_louisiana.html
    You're not using this one incident to generalise against and stereotype billions of Christians are you?
  4. Cape Town
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    07 Nov '15 09:21
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You're not using this one incident to generalise against and stereotype billions of Christians are you?
    I don't see why you would think that. He is generalizing, but not basing it on that one incident. He is giving the incident as an example. He is also not claiming that all religious people are like that. It only takes a few to cause concern.
    Are you concerned about ISIS for example? Does your concern therefore mean that you are using that one incident to generalize and stereotype billions of Muslims?
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Nov '15 11:54
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You're not using this one incident to generalise against and stereotype billions of Christians are you?
    Of course he is, it's all he's got.
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    07 Nov '15 13:52
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Of course he is, it's all he's got.
    Twhitehead nailed it, you are incorrect.
  7. Joined
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    07 Nov '15 14:33
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Theists here [well everywhere] often ask why atheists should care about what they
    believe, and why they should care about how they act.

    Christians in particular also frequently harp on about how they are being persecuted.

    So I thought I would post a link to an article that shows exactly why we do and should
    care, and about who is actually getti ...[text shortened]... alth_and_science/science/2015/11/christianity_forced_on_public_school_students_in_louisiana.html
    Seven plus billion people on the planet, and countless billions before. That's how many religious views exist. There is bound to be countless billions of misconceptions and misrepresentation about the truth of what any particular individual may have or express.

    It seems that just about everyone everywhere has something negative to say about any number of groups of people, what they believe and how they live.

    One can expect to be persecuted generally, but what is really being persecuted? And why? Should a person be persecuted for what they believe? Or for how they choose to live their life? I think not.

    Take racism for example. Should the civilized world allow someone to persecute and inhibit the life and well being of another because that one "believes" the race of another is inferior? Of course not! We actively seek to eradicate racial prejudice by making laws that prohibit racial bias, and to educate society against racism.

    So when is persecution justified? Is it persecution when we use force to curtail the activities of a racist? How about radical terrorist? I don't think persecution is the right word for it. It is justice.

    It is persecution when we inhibit or otherwise use force against another because we don't agree or have an opposing world view. Belief systems are neutral territory. Everyone has the right to believe what they want, and to express those beliefs in a public forum without fear of persecution as long as their beliefs don't include using force against another's right to believe, or not to believe, and live their life as they choose.

    So, what is persecution? Generally, persecution is anything anyone does that causes harm or insult, including verbal attacks and physical violence, etc, but specifically, as it is related to spiritual beliefs based on The Truth, persecution is of those that hold to, believe and live by that Truth.

    Persecution therefore, within the context of what is "The Truth" concerning spiritual reality and what is True about how to live this life, can only be leveled against the true believer in The Truth.
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    07 Nov '15 14:421 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Yes.
    The biggest threat any religion poses is indoctrination of the young.
    Our local Christian school on a visit to the museum were told to
    ignore the information on the fossils "because we know it's wrong".
    Sometimes it is wrong. Glasgow University Huntarian museum had a depiction of the alleged transmutation of a fish into an amphibian, into a reptile, into a bird, into a mammal etc etc which is apparently not now how evolutionists think that live evolved and diversified. As for the fossil record it can be used to find a rational basis for creation. To state that the scientific data is wrong is absurd. What is a matter of opinion is the interpretation of the data because both evolutionists and creationists can use exactly the same data and interpret it in different ways.
  9. Cape Town
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    07 Nov '15 15:07
    Originally posted by josephw
    So, what is persecution? Generally, persecution is anything anyone does that causes harm or insult, including verbal attacks and physical violence, etc, but specifically, as it is related to spiritual beliefs based on The Truth, persecution is of those that hold to, believe and live by that Truth.

    Persecution therefore, within the context of what is "The ...[text shortened]... is True about how to live this life, can only be leveled against the true believer in The Truth.
    You were doing great until you got to here. I agreed with everything you said and assumed you agreed with the OP. then suddenly you go off on a wild tangent redefining the meaning of 'persecution' apparently with the sole intent of allowing yourself to persecute others but not to be called on it.
    Is that your intent? Was your whole post basically saying "Persecution is wrong, unless it is me that does it"?
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    07 Nov '15 21:24
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    You were doing great until you got to here. I agreed with everything you said and assumed you agreed with the OP. then suddenly you go off on a wild tangent redefining the meaning of 'persecution' apparently with the sole intent of allowing yourself to persecute others but not to be called on it.
    Is that your intent? Was your whole post basically saying "Persecution is wrong, unless it is me that does it"?
    "Persecution is wrong, unless it is me that does it?"

    That is neither what I said, nor was that my intent.

    I'll say it again, only a little differently, although I'm quite sure it will be recieved with equal ambiguity.

    Persecution, as related to spiritual "Truth", is only persecution when it is against the one who knows "The Truth", and tries to live their life according to that "Truth". Strictly speaking. While persecution may exist against those that believe something other than "The Truth", it is only persecution in the strictest sense when it is against those who believe "The Truth".
  11. Standard memberDeepThought
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    07 Nov '15 21:43
    Originally posted by josephw
    Seven plus billion people on the planet, and countless billions before. That's how many religious views exist. There is bound to be countless billions of misconceptions and misrepresentation about the truth of what any particular individual may have or express.

    It seems that just about everyone everywhere has something negative to say about any number of ...[text shortened]... is True about how to live this life, can only be leveled against the true believer in The Truth.
    Just a minor point of information. Estimates are that about 10% of all humans that have ever existed are currently alive. This is from memory and I haven't checked my facts and could easily be out by a factor of 10 or so. But I really don't think that that amounts to "countless billions", we aren't even up to a trillion having ever lived.
  12. Joined
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    07 Nov '15 22:07
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Just a minor point of information. Estimates are that about 10% of all humans that have ever existed are currently alive. This is from memory and I haven't checked my facts and could easily be out by a factor of 10 or so. But I really don't think that that amounts to "countless billions", we aren't even up to a trillion having ever lived.
    Agreed. "Countless billions" is a bit hyperbolic.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    08 Nov '15 01:15
    Originally posted by josephw
    Agreed. "Countless billions" is a bit hyperbolic.
    Why do you say this? You have in the past asserted that there were as many humans here on earth immediately prior to "The Flood" (as in the Noah's Ark story) as there are today.
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    08 Nov '15 03:18
    Originally posted by FMF
    Why do you say this? You have in the past asserted that there were as many humans here on earth immediately prior to "The Flood" (as in the Noah's Ark story) as there are today.
    Read the thread. What I said was in reply to DT's post just above. Context is everything.

    But since you're changing the subject, I still believe the worlds population before the flood was near what it is today. I base that belief on several pieces of information.

    Just as an aside, have you read Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld series? I believe I recall reading in the story line the estimated total population of the earth was around 36 billion, but that was nearly 40 years ago when I read that. Might be a few billion more by now.

    I really don't know.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    08 Nov '15 03:41
    Originally posted by josephw
    I still believe the worlds population before the flood was near what it is today. I base that belief on several pieces of information.
    So you believe the 'Noah flood' killed about 7 billion people?
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