1. Joined
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    11 Feb '15 10:29
    Why eyewitness testimony isn't reliable or sufficient for extraordinary claims.
    Or why I wont [and we shouldn't] accept your 'personal experience' as evidence

    It is often claimed by believers of all stripes that while they don't have any evidence
    to show you to back up their claims of the supernatural, they have had a personal
    experience or encounter with god/s or the supernatural. And this means that they
    know that they are right, even if they cannot prove it to other people.

    To which I often say that if you cannot prove it, you cannot know it.

    This recent article on false memories [focusing on the Brian Williams scandal]
    gives an apt demonstration of how much more fallible our brains are than we
    would all like to believe.

    These are not the only problems with our brains that make them unreliable, but
    it's a big one.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/02/false_memories_of_brian_williams_memory_experts_chabris_and_simons_tips.html

    Here is an exert:

    .... That belief makes us assume the worst of those who misremember.
    Yet a full century of scientific research tells us that these intuitive, common-sense
    beliefs about how memory works are often wrong.

    No one has, to our knowledge, tried to implant a false memory of being shot down in a helicopter.
    But researchers have repeatedly created other kinds of entirely false memory in the laboratory.

    Most famously, Elizabeth Loftus and Jacqueline Pickrell successfully convinced people that, as
    children, they had once been lost in a shopping mall.

    In another study, researchers Kimberly Wade, Maryanne Garry, Don Read, and Stephen Lindsay
    showed people a Photoshopped image of themselves as children, standing in the basket of a hot
    air balloon. Half of the participants later had either complete or partial false memories, sometimes
    “remembering” additional details from this event—an event that they never experienced.

    In a newly published study, Julia Shaw and Stephen Porter used structured interviews to convince
    70 percent of their college student participants that they had committed a crime as an adolescent
    (theft, assault, or assault with a weapon) and that the crime had resulted in police contact.

    And outside the laboratory, people have fabricated rich and detailed memories of things that we can
    be almost 100 percent certain did not happen, such as having been abducted and impregnated by aliens. ....



    If you cannot show it, you cannot know it.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    11 Feb '15 11:201 edit
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    [b]Why eyewitness testimony isn't reliable or sufficient for extraordinary claims.
    Or why I wont [and we shouldn't] accept your 'personal experience' as evidence

    It is often claimed by believers of all stripes that while they don't have any evidence
    to show you to back up their claims of the supernatural, they have had a personal
    exper ...[text shortened]... abducted and impregnated by aliens. ....[/quote]


    If you cannot show it, you cannot know it.[/b]
    Well then why do you guys claim to believe in evolution when nobody has been able to show that a monkey has become a human. The earth has never been shown to be 4 billion years old either. Your testimony is obviously unreliable. 😏
  3. Joined
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    11 Feb '15 11:46
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Well then why do you guys claim to believe in evolution when nobody has been able to show that a monkey has become a human. The earth has never been shown to be 4 billion years old either. Your testimony is obviously unreliable. 😏
    We ARE monkeys [in as much as monkey can be defined scientifically, we qualify].

    We are a Great Ape, which is a subset of Ape, which is a subset of Old World Monkeys,
    which is a subset of Monkeys... ect ect.


    And we know the Earth is ~4.5 Billion years old, that we Evolved, and all the other
    scientific facts you ignorantly dismiss because we have EVIDENCE, not because we
    claim to remember it happening.

    WE are not the ones claiming things based on personal testimony.

    That's what you guys do.
  4. Joined
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    11 Feb '15 11:59
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    [b][b]. And this means that they
    know that they are right, even if they cannot prove it to other people.

    To which I often say that if you cannot prove it, you cannot know it.
    Now here is what you do, make a list, a very short list no doubt, of things you can prove.
  5. Joined
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    11 Feb '15 12:02
    Originally posted by whodey
    Now here is what you do, make a list, a very short list no doubt, of things you can prove.
    Have you heard of this thing we have called Science?

    Been proving stuff for 200+ years...

    So that list is really pretty long now.
  6. Joined
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    11 Feb '15 12:07
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Have you heard of this thing we have called Science?

    Been proving stuff for 200+ years...

    So that list is really pretty long now.
    Has global warming been proved? That is, have we proved that the causes are due to carbon emissions that humans create alone and have we proved that the legislation being proposed in the name of science will fix it?
  7. Joined
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    11 Feb '15 12:52
    Originally posted by whodey
    Has global warming been proved? That is, have we proved that the causes are due to carbon emissions that humans create alone and have we proved that the legislation being proposed in the name of science will fix it?
    Those are two [at least] separate questions.

    The answers to which are:

    YES. Global warming has been proven beyond any and all reasonable doubt to be real
    and caused by us. [we are not the only thing effecting the Earth's climate, but we
    are by far the dominant one]

    As for whether any particular policy would be effective in tackling this problem, that will
    depend on the policy in question, however the problem exists regardless of whether or
    not any specific policy to address it would work effectively.


    I'm not going to go into further discussions on this here as we are then [as you are wont to do]
    discussing politics and this is not the forum for that.
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    11 Feb '15 19:461 edit
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Those are two [at least] separate questions.

    The answers to which are:

    YES. Global warming has been proven beyond any and all reasonable doubt to be real
    and caused by us. [we are not the only thing effecting the Earth's climate, but we
    are by far the dominant one]

    As for whether any particular policy would be effective in tackling this prob ...[text shortened]... s we are then [as you are wont to do]
    discussing politics and this is not the forum for that.
    On the news there was a report that Boston was hard hit by snow and showed a house with some person that had shoveled the snow away from their door and the snow was over that person's head around the house. The report said it was 74 inches of snow fall for Boston at that time. I believe it is reasonable for that person to doubt global warming. 😏
  9. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
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    11 Feb '15 20:11
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    On the news there was a report that Boston was hard hit by snow and showed a house with some person that had shoveled the snow away from their door and the snow was over that person's head around the house. The report said it was 74 inches of snow fall for Boston at that time. I believe it is reasonable for that person to doubt global warming. 😏
    OF COURSE an assshole like you and the rest of your republican assshole buddies would think that, you all want to just ignore it till it's too late so you can keep business going as long as possible and if you are totally screwing your great grandkids tough titty kids, YOU figure it out.
  10. Joined
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    11 Feb '15 20:26
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    On the news there was a report that Boston was hard hit by snow and showed a house with some person that had shoveled the snow away from their door and the snow was over that person's head around the house. The report said it was 74 inches of snow fall for Boston at that time. I believe it is reasonable for that person to doubt global warming. 😏
    Global warming increases water content in the atmosphere as warm air can
    hold more moisture, and warmer water will evaporate faster and pump more
    moisture into the air.

    In cold regions you would thus expect greater snowfall.

    A reasonable person will look at the science on this issue and come to understand
    that weather and climate are two different things.

    They might also understand that the fact that global average temperatures have
    risen [so far less than 1 degree centigrade] does not mean that all areas have
    experienced the same change in average temperatures, and it does mean that
    you cannot extrapolate from your little corner of the planet to the entire globe.

    The entirety of the USA makes up ~1.9% of the total surface area of the planet,
    and only ~6.6% of the total Land area of the planet.

    The fact that it is snowing hard in a tiny part of a tiny part of the planet in the
    local winter does not disprove global warming.

    And as this kind of extreme weather is predicted by global warming theory and models
    it is not even evidence against global warming.



    You are demonstrating a different problem with our brains that make us unreliable.

    We put vastly higher value on personal experience and anecdote than we do
    on hard data and evidence.
    Despite anecdotes and personal experiences being highly biased, unrepresentative,
    and inaccurate.

    This is why acceptance in global warming in the public goes up in a heat wave and
    down in a cold snap.
  11. Standard memberavalanchethecat
    Not actually a cat
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    11 Feb '15 20:51
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Well then why do you guys claim to believe in evolution when nobody has been able to show that a monkey has become a human. The earth has never been shown to be 4 billion years old either. Your testimony is obviously unreliable. 😏
    Nobody's ever seen god either, but you have no problem with that.
  12. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
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    11 Feb '15 21:20
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    [b]Why eyewitness testimony isn't reliable or sufficient for extraordinary claims.
    Or why I wont [and we shouldn't] accept your 'personal experience' as evidence

    It is often claimed by believers of all stripes that while they don't have any evidence
    to show you to back up their claims of the supernatural, they have had a personal
    exper ...[text shortened]... abducted and impregnated by aliens. ....[/quote]


    If you cannot show it, you cannot know it.[/b]
    And sometimes the message is only for the one receiving it.

    "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." -- Matthew 7:6, KJV
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Feb '15 21:25
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    On the news there was a report that Boston was hard hit by snow and showed a house with some person that had shoveled the snow away from their door and the snow was over that person's head around the house. The report said it was 74 inches of snow fall for Boston at that time. I believe it is reasonable for that person to doubt global warming. 😏
    What makes sense is that because the earth is heating up, nature would try like hell to restore the balance. All you conservative idiots can do is mutter "Global warming, my ass!" as you shovel your driveway again for the fifth time this week.

    This is all on you and people like you. Those who don't give a damn what happens to the world as long as they can make their money off it (and sheep like you who support them) before they die.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Feb '15 21:32
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    We ARE monkeys [in as much as monkey can be defined scientifically, we qualify].

    We are a Great Ape, which is a subset of Ape, which is a subset of Old World Monkeys,
    which is a subset of Monkeys... ect ect.


    And we know the Earth is ~4.5 Billion years old, that we Evolved, and all the other
    scientific facts you ignorantly dismiss because we h ...[text shortened]...

    WE are not the ones claiming things based on personal testimony.

    That's what you guys do.
    Yes, that's what we do.

    And by word of mouth we have gathered together more people who understand the real message of the Word of God than any other religion on Earth.




    Over 2.2 billion saved. One person, one heart, at a time.
  15. Joined
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    11 Feb '15 21:43
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Yes, that's what we do.

    And by word of mouth we have gathered together more people who understand the real message of the Word of God than any other religion on Earth.




    Over 2.2 billion saved. One person, one heart, at a time.
    I wonder how many of those billions have had access to to modern scientific literature and education in order to arrive at an informed opinion?
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