witch of Endor

Our pastor takes biblical passages that are somewhat obscure and/or hard to define, or that at first glance appear contradictory. This coming Sunday it's Saul visiting the witch of Endor to call upon Samuel, who is dead in Sheol, for counsel I suppose. This should be a good one, but there;s one coming soon that I've never heard and can't wait to hear explained. There's a psalm that says Happy is a man who dashes his childrens heads against the rocks (paraphrased). I just HAVE to know why this never came up in my Methodist days.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Our pastor takes biblical passages that are somewhat obscure and/or hard to define, or that at first glance appear contradictory. This coming Sunday it's Saul visiting the witch of Endor to call upon Samuel, who is dead in Sheol, for counsel I suppose. This should be a good one, but there;s one coming soon that I've never heard and can't wait to hear exp ...[text shortened]... t the rocks (paraphrased). I just HAVE to know why this never came up in my Methodist days.

Which psalm is that? The one about the rocks, I mean, and the bashing.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Which psalm is that? The one about the rocks, I mean, and the bashing.

Psalm 137

1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
4 How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
7 Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Raze it, raze it, even to the foundation thereof.
8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

I think the explanation is simple. They are remembering the days of slavery in Egypt. Its better to die than to live in captivity.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Psalm 137

[i]1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
4 How shall we sing the Lord's son ...[text shortened]... They are remembering the days of slavery in Egypt. Its better to die than to live in captivity.

I know! I know! Boney M!

Originally posted by Jigtie
I know! I know! Boney M!

Nope;

This is Boney M:

"By the rivers of babylon, there we sat down
Ye-eah we wept, when we remembered zion.

When the wicked
Carried us away in captivity
Required from us a song
Now how shall we sing the lords song in a strange land

Let the words of our mouth and the meditations of our heart
Be acceptable in thy sight here tonight

By the rivers of babylon (dark tears of babylon)
There we sat down (you got to sing a song)
Ye-eah we wept, (sing a song of love)
When we remember zion. (yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah)

By the rivers of babylon (rough bits of babylon)
There we sat down (you hear the people cry)
Ye-eah we wept, (they need their God)
When we remember zion. (ooh, have the power)"

😵

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think the explanation is simple. They are remembering the days of slavery in Egypt. Its better to die than to live in captivity.

No, it's a song about revenge, a fantasy about murdering the children of the daughter of Babylon, who treated the children of Israel so poorly.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
No, it's a song about revenge, a fantasy about murdering the children of the daughter of Babylon, who treated the children of Israel so poorly.

Yep ... youre right. Is therefore very unChristlike.
I will take a note of it . It will come in handy when arguing with certain Christians.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Our pastor takes biblical passages that are somewhat obscure and/or hard to define, or that at first glance appear contradictory. This coming Sunday it's Saul visiting the witch of Endor to call upon Samuel, who is dead in Sheol, for counsel I suppose. This should be a good one, but there;s one coming soon that I've never heard and can't wait to hear exp ...[text shortened]... t the rocks (paraphrased). I just HAVE to know why this never came up in my Methodist days.

Perhaps they were abortionists at heart?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
No, it's a song about revenge, a fantasy about murdering the children of the daughter of Babylon, who treated the children of Israel so poorly.

It seems to me that we are in front of national mourning. Over here I notice a specific and clear understanding of identity -the winners and the captives. The captives have lost everything but their origins and their ethnicity sense as they conceive them by means of their religion.
My evaluation is that this is not a revenge song but pure mourning, along with the feeling that they will rise again when their "god" permits it.

However their rising means the fall of their enemies -because there is not another way when you are engaged in a war. Therefore the psalmist urges them to forget not their origins and to sing not, thus he urges them to disobey their capturers at once although they are not at all prepared to fight for they were captives.

So the psalmist passes through 137 the message that his people have to fear nothing, for they are able to resist merely thanks to their origins and ethnicity, and of course thanks to the power of their so called "god".

BTW, the knowledge that one can resist and win without resourses, and in addition without using violence at all, is easily found in martial arts (ie Ai ki Do); and of course this was the essense of Ghandi's message -he non-violently resisted and he won. Nothing contradictory and of course...

Nothing Holy😵

If the result of an altercation ends in the assassination or execution of a leader, I'd call that a loss by any measure.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
If the result of an altercation ends in the assassination or execution of a leader, I'd call that a loss by any measure.

Do you mean that Ghandi's assassination proves that he failed?

Originally posted by black beetle
Do you mean that Ghandi's assassination proves that he failed?

Big time

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Big time

Christ failed as well then ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ failed as well then ?

Christ is not dead.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Our pastor takes biblical passages that are somewhat obscure and/or hard to define, or that at first glance appear contradictory. This coming Sunday it's Saul visiting the witch of Endor to call upon Samuel, who is dead in Sheol, for counsel I suppose. This should be a good one, but there;s one coming soon that I've never heard and can't wait to hear exp ...[text shortened]... t the rocks (paraphrased). I just HAVE to know why this never came up in my Methodist days.

Are you refering to Psalm 137:9?