1. Territories Unknown
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    28 May '10 02:54
    It was pointed out to me recently how man (since Adam) has been each one of us born without a spirit, but by the means of sperm, whereas the second Adam was born without the means of sperm, yet with a spirit.

    And here we are, sowing seeds...
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    28 May '10 08:04
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    It was pointed out to me recently how man (since Adam) has been each one of us born without a spirit, but by the means of sperm, whereas the second Adam was born without the means of sperm, yet with a spirit.

    And here we are, sowing seeds...
    perhaps you didn't word that as well as you would've liked to, perhaps I'm misreading you, but how exactly was "...each one of us born without a spirit"?
    Or was it Adam that was born without a spirit ? (???)
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    28 May '10 08:255 edits
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    It was pointed out to me recently how man (since Adam) has been each one of us born without a spirit, but by the means of sperm, whereas the second Adam was born without the means of sperm, yet with a spirit.

    And here we are, sowing seeds...
    We are not born without a human spirit. But since Adam the human spirit was damaged. We are born with a human spirit in a comatose state. It is deadened.

    Jude does speak of some mockers in the last days having no spirit (Jude 19). But I think the interpretation of this passage is that some very soulish (v.19) believers act as if they had no regenerated spirit.

    In other words these extremely worldly and immature Christians don't live spiritually. The fact that they make divisions may mean that they are within the household of faith and are divisive.

    The highest part of thier being, the regenerated spirit indwelt with the Holy Spirit, they ignore. It is as if they have no spirit practically though they do have one. This might be like saying someone has no conscience. They have one but they do not listen to it.

    Basically, they do not contact God.
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    28 May '10 08:34
    Originally posted by jaywill
    We are not born without human spirit. But since Adam the human spirit was damaged. We are born with a human spirit in a comatose state. It is deadened.

    [b]Jude
    does speak of some mockers in the last days having no spirit (Jude 19). But I think the interpretation of this passage is that some very soulish (v.19) believers act as if they had no ...[text shortened]... onscience. They have one but they do not listen to it.

    Basically, they do not contact God.[/b]
    Do you not "make divisions"? Do you not put up a barrier between you and "God" ?
    (I could be misunderstaning you here, but I see devisiveness,(between God and man, not man and man), as one of the major flaws of christianity)
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    28 May '10 14:38
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Do you not "make divisions"? Do you not put up a barrier between you and "God" ?
    (I could be misunderstaning you here, but I see devisiveness,(between God and man, not man and man), as one of the major flaws of christianity)
    ======================================
    Do you not "make divisions"? Do you not put up a barrier between you and "God" ?
    (I could be misunderstaning you here, but I see devisiveness,(between God and man, not man and man), as one of the major flaws of christianity)
    =======================================


    Closeness to God brings people closer to one another.

    The divisions I was speaking of in the book of Jude are schisms, denominations, sects, cliques, factions, etc in the church, the body of Christ.

    If you consider the electic lights in a room, all the lights are in one flow. The electricity keeps them in the circulation, the flow, if you will, of electricity. That flow that unites all the lights is a kind of "fellowship".

    The Holy Spirit with the regenerated human spirit is a circulating flow or current keeping the children of God in oneness. The interruption of that flow causes division.

    The believers are exhorted to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace.

    The rich supply of salvation from God to man is not only verticle, flowing from above down to man. It is also horizontal flowing from believer to believer.

    Man can have a great unity without God. And the bibilca example of this is best seen in the Tower of Babel. God said the people were one and had one language and nothing would henceforth be impossible to them.

    God broke up this godless unity and scattered the people by confusing thier languages. It is difficult for us to understand why. It seems that a united mankind is a good thing. But that depends.

    The unity at the Tower of Babel was a collective unity in opposition to God. It was idolatrous. And God broke it up. This is in early Genesis. Genesis contains all the seeds of the important truths of the Bible, in thier initial form. The godless unity of man apart from God is a negative.

    The oneness brought about by the circulation of the Spirit of Christ within the redeemed is eternal and positive. And here closeness to God results in closerness to one another humanly.
  6. Territories Unknown
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    28 May '10 14:56
    Originally posted by jaywill
    We are not born without a human spirit. But since Adam the human spirit was damaged. We are born with a human spirit in a comatose state. It is deadened.

    [b]Jude
    does speak of some mockers in the last days having no spirit (Jude 19). But I think the interpretation of this passage is that some very soulish (v.19) believers act as if they had n ...[text shortened]... onscience. They have one but they do not listen to it.

    Basically, they do not contact God.[/b]
    I think you're referencing the human soul, given to man at birth by God the Father. However, this soul that is breathed into man at birth is perfect. It becomes corrupted by man's sin nature.
    God the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit at the moment of positive volition, imparts the same to man instantaneously.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 May '10 17:07
    Based on the title, I must be very spiritual!
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    28 May '10 19:49
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I think you're referencing the human soul, given to man at birth by God the Father. However, this soul that is breathed into man at birth is perfect. It becomes corrupted by man's sin nature.
    God the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit at the moment of positive volition, imparts the same to man instantaneously.
    ====================================
    I think you're referencing the human soul, given to man at birth by God the Father. However, this soul that is breathed into man at birth is perfect. It becomes corrupted by man's sin nature.
    God the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit at the moment of positive volition, imparts the same to man instantaneously.
    ======================================


    I was emphatically not refering to the human soul when I referenced Jude 19.

    Does regeneration create the human spirit ? That is the question as I understand you. Apparently you believe that the Holy Spirit creates the human spirit.

    I would say that the human spirit is made alive from its comatose state at regeneration. Therefore even the unregenerated person does have a human spirit, distinct from the human soul. It is deadened.

    Now let me see if I can draw biblical support for the idea of a present yet comatose or deadened human spirit in the unbelievers:

    Deutoronmy 2:30 says the Lord hardened Sihon's spirit. The conscience is part of the spirit. It must mean that the king's conscience was hardened.

    See alsdo Daniel 5:20.

    There are more passages but I am called away right now. The point is that I think these were unregenerated people and the Bible speaks of thier human spirit.

    "There is a spirit in man and the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding" (Job 32:8) I would say shows that all created mankind is in possession of a human spirit.

    "The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord, searching all the innermost parts of the inner being" (Prov. 20:27) . I would argue that this passage also indicates that all mankind is created with a human spirit.

    Then Zechariah 12:1 I would say also argues for a human spirit in the created man -

    "The burden of the word of Jehovah concerning Israel. Thus declares Jehovah, who stretches forth the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him."

    All man is created with a human spirit, I believe, based upon this passage also.
  9. Territories Unknown
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    28 May '10 20:221 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    ====================================
    I think you're referencing the human soul, given to man at birth by God the Father. However, this soul that is breathed into man at birth is perfect. It becomes corrupted by man's sin nature.
    God the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit at the moment of positive volition, imparts the same to man instantaneously ]

    All man is created with a human spirit, I believe, based upon this passage also.
    I will get back to all (or most) of the points you raise, but let's first consider the ramifications of the idea thought of God creating something dead, comatose or any in any other fashion, less than perfect.
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    28 May '10 20:36
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I will get back to all (or most) of the points you raise, but let's first consider the ramifications of the idea thought of God creating something dead, comatose or any in any other fashion, less than perfect.
    \

    ========================================
    I will get back to all (or most) of the points you raise, but let's first consider the ramifications of the idea thought of God creating something dead, comatose or any in any other fashion, less than perfect.
    ========================================


    I am not sure what you mean. The spirit of Adam was not dead. After the fall of Adam I believe that all his descendents came into the world with a comatose or deadened human spirit.

    I am reluctant to say that the human spirit of the fallen descendents of Adam is completely dead. That is because I think Jesse Penn Lewis demostrated that the human conscience is in the human spirit.

    Now all virtually all people have a functioning conscience. Though some thrust it away and do not listen to it. And we are all captives to sin apart from the freedom in Christ. And this causes conviction in the conscience.

    So I stop short of saying the sinner's spirit is totally dead. I like the word comatose to indicate that it is not functioning in full capacity.

    We must be born again. And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. The large S Holy Spirit regenerates the small s human spirit.

    I too am kind of distracted today with duties.
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    28 May '10 22:18
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]======================================
    Do you not "make divisions"? Do you not put up a barrier between you and "God" ?
    (I could be misunderstaning you here, but I see devisiveness,(between God and man, not man and man), as one of the major flaws of christianity)
    =======================================


    Closeness to God brings people ...[text shortened]... rnal and positive. And here closeness to God results in closerness to one another humanly.[/b]
    Well put. Cheers🙂
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    05 Jun '10 12:03
    Hi, you say the soul is breathed into man at birth, but this is not so!

    life begins at conception, not at the birth time.

    cheers vishvahetu
  13. Standard memberRemoved
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    06 Jun '10 15:14
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    It was pointed out to me recently how man (since Adam) has been each one of us born without a spirit, but by the means of sperm, whereas the second Adam was born without the means of sperm, yet with a spirit.

    And here we are, sowing seeds...
    The confusion, I think lies in definitions of body, soul and spirit.
    The body, every one knows what a body is, physical.
    By bible definition, where we should look for answers, the soul is breath life. It is what animates. Animals have soul. At death it expires.
    Spirit is the power of God, we are not born with it.
    Adam was body and soul, and God gave him spirit.
    Jesus was born of "created" sperm in Mary. He also was body and soul, then He received spirit from God.
    God gave spirit to whomever He chose to.
    Neither Adam nor Jesus were born with a sinful nature. This is passed on by the male sperm. Adam received it when he sinned. Jesus "took part." That is, He came from the female egg, but no male sperm since, again, the sperm was created in Mary. He had to be made like Adam to legally redeem mankind.
  14. Standard memberRemoved
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    06 Jun '10 15:18
    In the Old Testament, or the time of Law, holy spirit was given to select people and it was conditional. That is why David prayed "Do not take your spirit from me..."
    In the new birth, when one receives Jesus as Lord and is born again, the spirit is permanent and without measure.
  15. Standard memberDasa
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    09 Jun '10 23:18
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    In the Old Testament, or the time of Law, holy spirit was given to select people and it was conditional. That is why David prayed "Do not take your spirit from me..."
    In the new birth, when one receives Jesus as Lord and is born again, the spirit is permanent and without measure.
    to check baiter

    if you keep referring to the bible, your information about the soul, spirit, breath etc will be wrong every time.

    the bible being put together by fallible humans, is a silly attempt to explain god and life, and your enquiring nature should have already revealed this as obvious

    cheers vishvahetu
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