1. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    27 Jul '07 00:59
    When worshipping God, do you think that God cares if you don't do your
    best?

    That is, if you approach worship with a lazy attitude, or don't try as hard
    as you can, or are sloppy or unprepared, do you think that God cares?

    Nemesio
  2. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    27 Jul '07 01:302 edits
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    When worshipping God, do you think that God cares if you don't do your
    best?

    That is, if you approach worship with a lazy attitude, or don't try as hard
    as you can, or are sloppy or unprepared, do you think that God cares?

    Nemesio
    I will answer your question with the following Hadith's where the prophets say something about GOD:



    Book 035, Number 6496:
    Abu Huraira reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said: When My servant draws close to Me by the span of a palm, I draw close to him by the cubit and when he draws close to Me by the cubit, I draw close to him by the space (covered) by two hands, and when he draws close to Me by the space (covered) by two hands, I go in hurry towards him.

    Book 035, Number 6498:
    Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, thus stated: I live in the thought of My servant as he thinks about Me, and I am with him, as he remembers Me And if he remembers Me in his heart, I also remember him in My Heart, and if he remembers Me in assembly I remember him in the assembly, better than he (does that), and if he draws near Me by the span of a palm I draw near him by the cubit, and if he draws near Me by the cubit I draw near him by the space (covered by) two hands. And it he walks towards Me, I rush towards him.

    Book 035, Number 6499:
    Abu Dharr reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, stated:" He who comes with goodness, there are in store for him ten like those and even more than those: 'And he who comes with vice, ' it is only for that that he is called to account. I even forgive him (as I like) and he who draws close to Me by the span of a palm I draw close to him by the cubit, and he who draws close to Me by the cubit I draw close to him by the space (covered) by two hands, and he who walks towards Me I rush towards him, and he who meets Me in the state that his sins fill the earth, but not associating anything with Me, I would meet Him with the same (vastness) of pardon (on My behalf)." This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Waki'.


    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/035.smt.html#035.6496
    --

    As you can see, Allah approaches man with an attitude of multiples of the man's attitude in approaching him. So whatever an effort man do to approach his GOD, Allah will do more to make him closer. This makes the man attitude next time more powerful.

    (I feel my statement is not clear, but I hope you understand what I mean 🙂)
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    27 Jul '07 06:317 edits
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    When worshipping God, do you think that God cares if you don't do your
    best?

    That is, if you approach worship with a lazy attitude, or don't try as hard
    as you can, or are sloppy or unprepared, do you think that God cares?

    Nemesio
    You mean, like, when you're dragging your son to the sacrificial altar and you're thinking more about the suffering that you're going to cause him and the sorrow you'll feel after losing him than you are about how the shedding of his blood will please, honor, and glorify the Lord? When you're spiteful that God has commanded you to carry out such a sacrifice instead of being grateful that he has chosen you instead of your neighbor or somebody from another tribe, like a Sodomite?

    If anything can be learned from the Abraham story, isn't it that attitude, sincerity and full devotion are precisely the things that matter to God in worship? That is, when God commands you to slay your son to glorify Him, you ought to give it your best damn effort, with a smile on your face and a spring in your step.
  4. England
    Joined
    15 Nov '03
    Moves
    33497
    27 Jul '07 09:56
    my understanding is Two men praying one a sinner the other a priest . The priest prays thank you lord for not making me like this sinner. the sinner prays lord forgive me for i have sinned against all that5 is holy. Whom do you think god wants the pray of. the man who puts himself above or the one who is humble before the living god.
  5. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    27 Jul '07 11:07
    Originally posted by stoker
    my understanding is Two men praying one a sinner the other a priest . The priest prays thank you lord for not making me like this sinner. the sinner prays lord forgive me for i have sinned against all that5 is holy. Whom do you think god wants the pray of. the man who puts himself above or the one who is humble before the living god.
    And if the next day the Priest is out helping the poor and the sick etc and the sinner is sinning as usual?
    I think Nemesios question was not about your past or even your attitude when praying but whether or not your behavior reflects your claimed beliefs.
    Your post almost implies that it is better to go and sin so that you will have something to be ashamed about when you pray.
    I think Jesus did say something to the effect that to be rich was a barrier and encouraged people to give up their wealth, but I don't remember any such teaching regarding sin. I don't think he encouraged people to become extra sinful in order to be the most humble when praying.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    27 Jul '07 12:181 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    And if the next day the Priest is out helping the poor and the sick etc and the sinner is sinning as usual?
    I think Nemesios question was not about your past or even your attitude when praying but whether or not your behavior reflects your claimed beliefs.
    Your post almost implies that it is better to go and sin so that you will have something to be ash think he encouraged people to become extra sinful in order to be the most humble when praying.
    Here is the passage :

    Luke 18:9 And he spake also this parable unto certain who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and set all others at nought:
    10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    12 I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.
    13 But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be thou merciful to me a sinner.
    14 I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled; but he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

    One was arrogant and boastful and the other was humble and repentent.
  7. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    27 Jul '07 12:59
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    One was arrogant and boastful and the other was humble and repentent.
    But it doesn't answer Nemesios question nor does it say that being humble and repentant gives you a right to sin as much as you want nor does it say that you should sin in order to make yourself more humble and repentant.
    Some Christians seem to interpret it as saying that the more sinful you are the more repentant you will be and thus God will be happier with you.
    If the Pharisee was also humble and repentant would he still be wrong because he was more righteous.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    27 Jul '07 13:39
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Some Christians seem to interpret it as saying that the more sinful you are the more repentant you will be and thus God will be happier with you.
    Oh .. this is what you getting at. I have not come across anyone saying or implying that more sin and more repentence is better. It should be clear to any Christian that its better not to sin than to sin and repent.

    I have come across religions - Catholics in particular - that have confessions, which they think grants them forgiveness. I know of a case where a woman was repeatedly unfaithful to her husband and she was convinced that the act of confession made it ok.
  9. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    27 Jul '07 13:47
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Oh .. this is what you getting at. I have not come across anyone saying or implying that more sin and more repentence is better. It should be clear to any Christian that its better not to sin than to sin and repent.
    It is very common for Christians to spend a lot of time recounting how terribly sinful they used to be.
  10. Illinois
    Joined
    20 Mar '07
    Moves
    6266
    27 Jul '07 14:37
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    When worshipping God, do you think that God cares if you don't do your
    best?

    That is, if you approach worship with a lazy attitude, or don't try as hard
    as you can, or are sloppy or unprepared, do you think that God cares?

    Nemesio
    I think it could be said that the Christian life is a perfecting of worship. God definitely cares if you don't do your best or not, but perfection is not demanded right away. I'd say, if you aren't in pursuit of serving the Lord as best you can, then you're in danger of incurring the Lord's chastizement.

    At first it's good enough just to show up and make a wholehearted attempt, while further down the line worship grows into a daily sacrifice of one's will to the will of the Father. Further down the line yet, worship becomes a perpetual 'living' sacrifice of one's will to the will of the Father.

    The imitation of Christ is the goal, as Christ's will was one perfectly surrendered to the will of his Father.

    "Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me" (Matt. 16:24).

    "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship" (Rom. 12:1).
  11. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    27 Jul '07 15:54
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    I think it could be said that the Christian life is a perfecting of worship. God definitely cares if you don't do your best or not, but perfection is not demanded right away. I'd say, if you aren't in pursuit of serving the Lord as best you can, then you're in danger of incurring the Lord's chastizement.

    At first it's good enough just to show ...[text shortened]... ifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship" (Rom. 12:1).
    I should clarify my question.

    I'm speaking specifically on the Sunday-to-Sunday activities (or other days when Christians gather
    as a group to worship in a church).

    I'm talking specifically about the execution of those worship activities. For example, I think it's
    particularly outraging when a preacher shows up unprepared.

    I tried to be clear about doing one's best. A small church with a congregation of 20 retired people
    cannot command the same salary as a 2000 family church, so if the preaching is worse at one, then
    of course that makes sense.

    So, I'll ask again: do people think God cares if you approach worship in a sloppy, lackadaisical, or
    indifferent way? Or do they think that God is indifferent to the work people put into worship?

    Nemesio
  12. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    27 Jul '07 16:58
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    I should clarify my question.

    I'm speaking specifically on the Sunday-to-Sunday activities (or other days when Christians gather
    as a group to worship in a church).

    I'm talking specifically about the execution of those worship activities. For example, I think it's
    particularly outraging when a preacher shows up unprepared.

    I tried to be ...[text shortened]... ? Or do they think that God is indifferent to the work people put into worship?

    Nemesio
    So i think the question was not for me, sorry for answering unasked question...
  13. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    27 Jul '07 17:14
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    So i think the question was not for me, sorry for answering unasked question...
    No, no! The question was for you and you answered it well, although briefly. I was offering clarity
    to Epiphineas using his religious framework.

    Thanks for your answer. If you want to elaborate on it, that would be great, too.

    Nemesio
  14. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    27 Jul '07 17:24
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    When worshipping God, do you think that God cares if you don't do your
    best?
    Garbage in, garbage out, I dare say.
  15. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    26187
    27 Jul '07 17:58
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Garbage in, garbage out, I dare say.
    That could be interpreted in a number of ways.
Back to Top