Wwmlkd?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Another of your twists of logic. If we were worthy of receiving the Good News, we wouldn't have needed it in the first place, would we!

Are works a demonstration of faith, or are they not?

Originally posted by rwingett
Are works a demonstration of faith, or are they not?

Not as you are couching the terms.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Not as you are couching the terms.

Well, in your opinion, how are works a demonstration of faith?

Originally posted by josephw
Yes. I remember. I grew up in the sixties. I thought MLK had a noble cause. Much good resulted from the civil rights movement. I didn't know it at the time, but MLK was a conservative republican. James Earl Ray, and those behind him, were probably democrats.

That should get things going. 😛

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I didn't know it at the time, but MLK was a conservative republican.
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Right !! And Rush Limbaugh was a member of SDS (Students For a Democratic Society).

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but I'm sure its wrong.

I'm not that young. Barry Goldwater (the godfather of 60s conservatism) and Martin Luther King had nothing in common.

In fact Goldwater ran on a platform that Civil Rights legislation was "unconstitutional".

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]But the aim of God is the establishing of His will on earth, isn't it? "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."
The Lord's Prayer was created for a specific group of people during a specific time in history. Applying it when inappropriate leads to all manner of disasters.

Again, there is nothing wrong with 'righting wrongs,' i ...[text shortened]... ts are put in their proper perspective, i.e., secondary to the primary work of the Gospel.[/b]

The Lord's Prayer was created for a specific group of people during a specific time in history. Applying it when inappropriate leads to all manner of disasters.

Is the Lord's Prayer irrelevant today? God no longer wishes to establish His will on earth? I doubt that.

Again, there is nothing wrong with 'righting wrongs,' insofar as these efforts are put in their proper perspective, i.e., secondary to the primary work of the Gospel.

I don't understand the "properness" of the perspective you speak of. How are works of righteousness secondary to the Gospel? Are we not saved in order to do good works? "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10). As such, righting wrongs could not be said to be secondary in terms of importance, but only secondary insofar as good works proceed and do not precede faith.

Christ said his second commandment, i.e., love your neighbor as yourself, is no less important than the first, i.e., loving God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. If Good Samaritanship is as vastly important as our response to God Himself, then how can it be said to be secondary to anything, let alone the work of the Gospel? Especially if we consider that working for the benefit of all people in this world is, according to Christ and the apostles, the very fulfillment of the Gospel.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
It is precisely because I have read his speeches and studied his history that I have said what I did. Reading the excerpt you posted only underscores the point. MLK, when he abandoned his role as a pastor and took up his position as a civil rights leader, effectively had to switch allegiances.

While his status as a Christian is not in question, ...[text shortened]... against a field of any other category of concern, the response is always "none of the above."

While his status as a Christian is not in question...

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask why MLK's status as a Christian is not in question.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]While his status as a Christian is not in question...

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask why MLK's status as a Christian is not in question.[/b]

It probably is to those who still question his status as a citizen and a man.

Originally posted by rwingett
Well, in your opinion, how are works a demonstration of faith?

yes, works are a demonstration of faith, because many works require the exercise of faith. Its like tactics and strategy on the chess board, tactics flow from a strategically superior position, and strategy needs to be tactically sound. Thus faith needs works as a kind of outward demonstration of its reality, and these works need faith in order for them to be carried out.

Originally posted by rwingett
Well, in your opinion, how are works a demonstration of faith?

Works can be a demonstration of faith, but they can also be a demonstration of servitude, or obligation... or expectation. Your problem is that you read on the surface what you want the Bible to say and then walk away upset when you see it doesn't fit reality.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]While his status as a Christian is not in question...

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask why MLK's status as a Christian is not in question.[/b]

Salvation is not in question, because it is assumed that he must have made a positive response to the Gospel at some point in his life--- otherwise, why would he have become a pastor? Of course, it's all speculation, but the bet's a pretty good one.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
The Lord's Prayer was created for a specific group of people during a specific time in history. Applying it when inappropriate leads to all manner of disasters.

Is the Lord's Prayer irrelevant today? God no longer wishes to establish His will on earth? I doubt that.

Again, there is nothing wrong with 'righting wrongs,' insofar as these eff ...[text shortened]... d[/i] is, according to Christ and the apostles, the very fulfillment of the Gospel.[/b]

Is the Lord's Prayer irrelevant today? God no longer wishes to establish His will on earth? I doubt that.
Emphatically, the Lord's Prayer is not for our time. His will is no where close to being established on this planet. It will be, but not during our dispensation.

How are works of righteousness secondary to the Gospel? Are we not saved in order to do good works? "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).
What are these good works of which Paul speaks?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]..Emphatically, the Lord's Prayer is not for our time.

Lol Which lol time lol is lol it lol for lol then ? lol 😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
Lol Which lol time lol is lol for lol then ? lol 😀

Amazingly, you are able to read English. Now, get to the Greek, then, get to the Hebrew, then learn the Chaldean, then learn history...
you know what? Never mind. Just find a pastor that has studied the same and knows what he's talking about. You'll soon be dispensed with your one-dimensional version of God and be more than happy with the new 4-D version.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Amazingly, you are able to read English. Now, get to the Greek, then, get to the Hebrew, then learn the Chaldean, then learn history...
you know what? Never mind. Just find a pastor that has studied the same and knows what he's talking about. You'll soon be dispensed with your one-dimensional version of God and be more than happy with the new 4-D version.

were not the apostles of Christ put under the same charge, that they were ordinary and unlettered?

(Acts 4:13) . . .Now when they beheld the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were men unlettered and ordinary, they got to wondering.. . .

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Amazingly, you are able to read English. Now, get to the Greek, then, get to the Hebrew, then learn the Chaldean, then learn history...
you know what? Never mind. Just find a pastor that has studied the same and knows what he's talking about. You'll soon be dispensed with your one-dimensional version of God and be more than happy with the new 4-D version.

Humility. Thats what you said that must precede the search for Bible truth and knowledge... humility.

So when are you developing some. 🙂

I mean you play Mr Know It All for us normal humans. And thats not so bad.
But saying that the Lords Prayer is not for our time and then refusing to explain why is just plain ole arrogance.