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Originally posted by RJHinds“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—JOHN 17:16.
Jesus never commanded his followers to be NO part of this world. A Christian should participate in world affairs. Christians are to act as a restraining force in government.
The Instructor
ON THE last night of his life as a perfect human, Jesus uttered a long prayer in the hearing of his disciples. In the course of that prayer, he said something that describes the lives of all true Christians. Speaking of his followers, he said: “I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—John 17:14-16.
Twice, Jesus said that his followers would be no part of the world. Moreover, that separateness would lead to tensions—the world would hate them. Still, Christians need not be dismayed; Jehovah would watch over them. (Proverbs 18:10; Matthew 24:9, 13)
Our close relationship with Jehovah is one reason why we are no part of the world. The apostle John wrote: “We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19) John’s words about the world are manifestly true. The wars, crime, cruelty, oppression, dishonesty, and immorality that are so rampant today give evidence of Satan’s, not God’s, influence. (John 12:31; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 6:12) When an individual becomes one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, he will not practice or consent to such wrong practices, and that makes him no part of the world.—Romans 12:2; 13:12-14; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 John 3:10-12.
John said that Christians, in contrast with the world, “originate with God.” All who dedicate themselves to Jehovah belong to him. The apostle Paul said: “Both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah.” (Romans 14:8; Psalm 116:15) Because we belong to Jehovah, we give him exclusive devotion. (Exodus 20:4-6) Hence, a true Christian does not devote his life to some secular cause. And while he respects national emblems, he does not worship them, either by actions or in spirit. He certainly does not worship sports stars or other modern idols. Of course, he respects the right of others to do as they wish, but he worships only the Creator. (Matthew 4:10; Revelation 19:10) This too makes him separate from the world.
Christians are followers of Christ Jesus and subjects of God’s Kingdom, which also makes them no part of the world. When Jesus was on trial before Pontius Pilate, he said: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.” (John 18:36) The Kingdom is the means by which Jehovah’s name will be sanctified, his sovereignty vindicated, and his will done on earth as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:9, 10) Throughout his ministry, Jesus preached the good news of the Kingdom, and he said that it would be proclaimed by his followers right up to the end of the system of things. (Matthew 4:23; 24:14) In 1914 the prophetic words of Revelation 11:15 were fulfilled: p. 16“The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.” One day soon, that heavenly Kingdom will be the only ruling power over mankind. (Daniel 2:44) At a certain point, even secular rulers will be forced to acknowledge its authority.—Psalm 2:6-12.
In harmony with their belonging to Jehovah and being followers of Jesus and subjects of God’s Kingdom, Jehovah’s Witnesses have remained neutral in the national and international conflicts of the 20th and 21st centuries. They have chosen no sides, have taken up no arms against anyone, and have not spread propaganda for any secular cause. In a remarkable demonstration of faith in the face of seemingly overwhelming opposition, they have followed the principles expressed to the Nazi rulers of Germany in 1934: “We have no interest in political affairs, but are wholly devoted to God’s kingdom under Christ his King. We will do no injury or harm to anyone. We would delight to dwell in peace and do good to all men as we have opportunity.”
Choose who you feel you must follow which is your government. That's fine for you. But we choose to follow Jesus and his Kingdom ONLY.
Originally posted by galveston75"Choose who you feel you must follow which is your government. That's fine for you. But we choose to follow Jesus and his Kingdom ONLY."
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—JOHN 17:16.
ON THE last night of his life as a perfect human, Jesus uttered a long prayer in the hearing of his disciples. In the course of that prayer, he said something that describes the lives of all true Christians. Speaking of his followers, he said: “I have given your word to ...[text shortened]... ich is your government. That's fine for you. But we choose to follow Jesus and his Kingdom ONLY.
Doesn't Christ's command, "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's" recognize a Christian's responsibility to behave lawfully as a citizen under the temporal authority of human government?
Originally posted by galveston75How do you go from :
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—JOHN 17:16.
ON THE last night of his life as a perfect human, Jesus uttered a long prayer in the hearing of his disciples. In the course of that prayer, he said something that describes the lives of all true Christians. Speaking of his followers, he said: “I have given your word to ...[text shortened]... ich is your government. That's fine for you. But we choose to follow Jesus and his Kingdom ONLY.
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—JOHN 17:16.
to
Choose who you feel you must follow which is your government. That's fine for you. But we choose to follow Jesus and his Kingdom ONLY
The Bible is full of examples of good righteous Godfearing people who were part of the ruling governments and who will also be part of Gods Kingdom. The two are not mutually exclusive as you wrongly claim.
Originally posted by galveston75Jesus said that His disciples were not of the world, meaning only that they did not desire to gain worldly things. He did NOT command them to be no part of this world, but He prayed to the Father the following:
“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—JOHN 17:16.
ON THE last night of his life as a perfect human, Jesus uttered a long prayer in the hearing of his disciples. In the course of that prayer, he said something that describes the lives of all true Christians. Speaking of his followers, he said: “I have given your word to ...[text shortened]... ich is your government. That's fine for you. But we choose to follow Jesus and his Kingdom ONLY.
"I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one."
They have to be part of this world to teach and baptize others into the Kingdom of Christ.
The Instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsYou and Rajk seem to have problems with these scriptures and what they mean. For some reason you two seem to want to protect your association and friendship with the world and it's goverments. Why is that?
Jesus said that His disciples were not of the world, meaning only that they did not desire to gain worldly things. He did NOT command them to be no part of this world, but He prayed to the Father the following:
[b]"I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one."
They have to be part of this world to teach and baptize others into the Kingdom of Christ.
The Instructor[/b]
This is what happens when you prefer to "lean upon your own understandings" of the scriptures which one is told NOT to do.
We know exactly what they mean and what they do include and not include that a Christian is to do an not do.
So.....if you and others are not clear on this issue, why is that? Why are you not able to understand?
The scriptures clearly say that "all his followers would be in agreement" when it comes to spiritual matters, and yes we, all "Jehovah's Witnesses" are in COMPLETE agreement on these scriptures and on this subject of separating ourselves from the world and it satanic issues.
This is what happens when one allows Jehovah's direction to work upon them, instead of injecting ones own personal opinions as you and Rajk are doing.
Originally posted by galveston75We are not told to lean unto the Watchtower Society for our understanding. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will teach us.
You and Rajk seem to have problems with these scriptures and what they mean. For some reason you two seem to want to protect your association and friendship with the world and it's goverments. Why is that?
This is what happens when you prefer to "lean upon your own understandings" of the scriptures which one is told NOT to do.
We know exactly what ...[text shortened]... on to work upon them, instead of injecting ones own personal opinions as you and Rajk are doing.
“These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."
(John 14:25-26 NKJV)
The Holy Spirit has taught me contrary on this matter from what the Watchtower Society has taught you.
The Instructor
Originally posted by galveston75The Bible contains many examples of righteous people engaging in governmental work in their time and in foreign alien governments to boot.
You and Rajk seem to have problems with these scriptures and what they mean. For some reason you two seem to want to protect your association and friendship with the world and it's goverments. Why is that?
This is what happens when you prefer to "lean upon your own understandings" of the scriptures which one is told NOT to do.
We know exactly what ...[text shortened]... on to work upon them, instead of injecting ones own personal opinions as you and Rajk are doing.
So its YOU and YOUR WatchTower people who are leaning towards your own understanding.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhat was Jesus holding in his hand when he spoke those words?
"Choose who you feel you must follow which is your government. That's fine for you. But we choose to follow Jesus and his Kingdom ONLY."
Doesn't Christ's command, "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's" recognize a Christian's responsibility to behave lawfully as a citizen under the temporal authority of human government?
Originally posted by Rajk999OH my...just can't put the pieces together can you?
The Bible contains many examples of righteous people engaging in governmental work in their time and in foreign alien governments to boot.
So its YOU and YOUR WatchTower people who are leaning towards your own understanding.
A few facts that cannot be ignored:
1) Jesus acknowledged that satan has control of the worlds kingdoms and governments as satan offered them ALL to him.
2) Jesus said his Kingdom or government is NOT part of this world.
3) Jesus said his followers were NOT to be a part of this world.
4) The Bible says that God's Kingdom, who Jesus is the ruler of, will "crush and put and end to all these earthly kingdoms" at armegeddon.
So there is a clear description in the bible that satan owns this world and it's ruling powers and these powers are under the control of satan, and will not last.
Why would anyone who claims to be christian and a ((((( SUBJECT ))))) of the Kingdom that Jesus said is NOT a part of this world, ever align themselves or give any allegiance to any country of this satan led world that will be soon destroyed? How foolish and deadly this decision is...........
Originally posted by galveston75Do you consider what Satan/Devil says is more reliable than what Jesus says? Seems that way.
.. 1) Jesus acknowledged that satan has control of the worlds kingdoms ..
I know Satan said that he as authority but Jesus did not respond to that statement. Jesus said the opposite:
Mat 28:18 .. All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.
Plus Christ said that the Devil is a murderer and a liar
John 8:44 .. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
Originally posted by Rajk999Are you really serious Rajk? O my goodness...
Do you consider what Satan/Devil says is more reliable than what Jesus says? Seems that way.
I know Satan said that he as authority but Jesus did not respond to that statement. Jesus said the opposite:
[b]Mat 28:18 .. All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.
Plus Christ said that the Devil is a murderer and a liar
Joh ...[text shortened]... m. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.[/b]
Originally posted by Rajk999Do you really want the answer or will you just resort to calling me stupid or some other name to expose that you don't know it all?
Serious about what Christ said? Sure.
Dont you believe Christ when he said [b]".. All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth ?[/b]