“If I Were the Devil Transcript”

Originally posted by galveston75
Do you really want the answer or will you just resort to calling me stupid or some other name to expose that you don't know it all?

You already made your points clear and they are not factual neither are your conclusions correct. Your only defense is that 'we' need to lean on the teachings of the Watchtower Org. Ok .. I got that. Thanks but I would lean on what the bible says. I can read.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You already made your points clear and they are not factual neither are your conclusions correct. Your only defense is that 'we' need to lean on the teachings of the Watchtower Org. Ok .. I got that. Thanks but I would lean on what the bible says. I can read.

I believe the scriptures that have been quoted that are yes, even in your bible, clearly states God's views and well as his sons on "being no part of this world". This has nothing to do with the WTS.
The only reason you can't understand those crystal clear scriptures is someone has got you blind to what they say.
Not my fault......

Originally posted by galveston75
A few facts that cannot be ignored:

1) Jesus acknowledged that satan has control of the worlds kingdoms and governments as satan offered them ALL to him.

2) Jesus said his Kingdom or government is NOT part of this world.

3) Jesus said his followers were NOT to be a part of this world.

4) The Bible says that God's Kingdom, who Jesus is the ru ...[text shortened]... satan led world that will be soon destroyed? How foolish and deadly this decision is...........

I agree with all you have stated, but I have reservations.
Jesus also said we cannot go "out" of the world, we are to live in it and not abuse it.
We are also commanded to pray for civil authorities, that we may have peace and that the word of God is not bound.

No where does it say, not to run for political office.
No where does it say not to join the military and defend your country either.

The founding fathers of this country, were mostly Christians. They held political office, they helped abolish slavery and oppression.

In the two great wars, America helped stop Tyranny, where bibles would have been confiscated.
I highly recommend "The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshall and David Manuel on how God intervened in these wars.
One British General is quoted as saying, "Providence is on their side and not ours"
If our founding fathers were JW's, we would not have a United States of America!

Originally posted by galveston75
I believe the scriptures that have been quoted that are yes, even in your bible, clearly states God's views and well as his sons on "being no part of this world". This has nothing to do with the WTS.
The only reason you can't understand those crystal clear scriptures is someone has got you blind to what they say.
Not my fault......

Thank goodness Im blind to what the WatchTower says. Otherwise I would not be able to celebrate birthdays or Christmas, get blood transfusions if necessary, I would shun my family if they are not JWs and a whole host of dos and donts. I thank God that I can read and understand without needing others to interpret for me.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I agree with all you have stated, but I have reservations.
Jesus also said we cannot go "out" of the world, we are to live in it and not abuse it.
We are also commanded to pray for civil authorities, that we may have peace and that the word of God is not bound.

No where does it say, not to run for political office.
No where does it say not to join ...[text shortened]... and not ours"
If our founding fathers were JW's, we would not have a United States of America!

Some good points in there.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I agree with all you have stated, but I have reservations.
Jesus also said we cannot go "out" of the world, we are to live in it and not abuse it.
We are also commanded to pray for civil authorities, that we may have peace and that the word of God is not bound.

No where does it say, not to run for political office.
No where does it say not to join ...[text shortened]... and not ours"
If our founding fathers were JW's, we would not have a United States of America!

No there is no scripture that specifically says not to run or be some official within a goverment setting such as a mayor, etc.
But does it have to?
One has to look at all that Jesus said, what he did and didn't do and what the rest of the Bible says.

So we know that Jesus said point blank a couple things. He said his Kingdom is no part of the world as well as his followers.
But yet the bible says that we are still in the world and live here as humans. We still have to obey the laws of the land " as long as they don't conflict with god's" and pay our taxes.
So if a Christian is indeed a loyal subject of God's Kingdom and only serves the one master, God, and is not willing to compromise that loyalty can a Christian do as you suggest? Also remember the scripture that says you are either hot or cold with that loyalty. If one is luke warm and riding the fence with their their loyalty and obligations, God hates that even more.
For instance God tells us not to kill or be involved in the worlds wars and conflicts. If one is holding some type of office such as a mayor and the city is called upon to support something to do with a war effort, how would a Christian who is supposed to be doing as God commands about killing handle that?
Also what was the only commision that Jesus gave his followers? To get involved with poilitics, or was it to preach and teach about his teachings?

A couple interesting comments:

Regarding political involvement, what do secular historians report as being the attitude of those known as early Christians?

“Early Christianity was little understood and was regarded with little favor by those who ruled the pagan world. . . . Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. . . . They would not hold political office.”—On the Road to p. 274Civilization, A World History (Philadelphia, 1937), A. Heckel and J. Sigman, pp. 237, 238.


“The Christians stood aloof and distinct from the state, as a priestly and spiritual race, and Christianity seemed able to influence civil life only in that manner which, it must be confessed, is the purest, by practically endeavouring to instil more and more of holy feeling into the citizens of the state.”—The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander, translated from German by H. J. Rose, p. 168.

Originally posted by galveston75
No there is no scripture that specifically says not to run or be some official within a goverment setting such as a mayor, etc.
But does it have to?
One has to look at all that Jesus said, what he did and didn't do and what the rest of the Bible says.

So we know that Jesus said point blank a couple things. He said his Kingdom is no part of the w ...[text shortened]... irst Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander, translated from German by H. J. Rose, p. 168.

There is a God. Imagine if the JWs believed in participating in government what would be the situation if they got into power and changed things like blood transfusions, ban on Christmas, etc etc .. Thank God you people believe the way you do.

Thank God also for all the faithful Christians who gave their lives in the early days of colonisation of the west and of the third world, to government activity which helped the rest of the world to develop.

Good Christians have an important role to play in world governments. Christ said that Christians have to be a light to the world and the salt of the earth.

Chances are God does not think the WatchTower people qualify as good Christians so He has in His wisdom placed a block in your brains which stops you from seeing the benefit in participating in the government.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There is a God. Imagine if the JWs believed in participating in government what would be the situation if they got into power and changed things like blood transfusions, ban on Christmas, etc etc .. Thank God you people believe the way you do.

Thank God also for all the faithful Christians who gave their lives in the early days of colonisation of the west ...[text shortened]... block in your brains which stops you from seeing the benefit in participating in the government.

Yes thank goodness we don't and thank goodness we take Jesus's words seriously....


Christian Neutrals in These Last Days


Does the historical record show that any group in these last days has pursued strict neutrality in imitation of the early Christians? Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses have done so. All during this time period, they have kept preaching that God’s Kingdom is the only means to bring lasting peace, prosperity, and happiness to lovers of righteousness. (Matthew 24:14) But with regard to controversies among the nations, they have maintained strict neutrality.

In sharp contrast, the clergy of this world’s religions have been very involved in political affairs. In some lands, they have actively campaigned for or against candidates. Some of the clergy even hold political office. Others have pressured politicians to favor programs that the clergy approve. However, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not meddle in politics. Nor do they interfere with what others do as to joining a political party, running for political office, or voting in elections. Jesus said that his disciples would be no part of the world, so Jehovah’s Witnesses take no part in politics.

As Jesus foretold, nations have repeatedly gone to war. Even factions within nations have fought one another. (Matthew 24:3, 6, 7) The religious leaders have almost always supported one nation or faction against another, urging their followers to do the same. The result? Members of the same religion kill one another in battle just because of differences in nationality or tribe. This is contrary to God’s will.—1 John 3:10-12; 4:8, 20.

However, Jehovah’s Witnesses have been strictly neutral in all conflicts. The Watchtower of November 1, 1939, stated: “All who are on the Lord’s side will be neutral as to warring nations.” Jehovah’s Witnesses in all nations and under all circumstances continue to hold to this position. They do not allow the world’s divisive politics and wars to break up their international brotherhood. They “beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears.” Being neutral, they do not learn war anymore.—Isaiah 2:3, 4; 2 Corinthians 10:3, 4.

Christians are to be salt & light in this world .....Ambassadors from another Kingdom yet to live in this world or what is the point ?


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Christians are to be salt & light in this world .....Ambassadors from another Kingdom yet to live in this world or what is the point ?


Manny

Yes we are ambassadors. That term by itself shows who a Christian is in reguards to being a subject of God's Kingdom.
Human ambassadors that are in other countries from their own do not get involved in that other countries politics in the since of running for office, voting, showing support for whatever movements or changes that the rest of that countries population my be involved in.
An ambassador has to remain neutral and stand apart from that host countries governmental activities or else he would be considered a traitor from his home country.

This is a major point that so many miss. God's Kingdom is a REAL Kingdom. It's not one we can see with our eyes but still it is very real and in fact is about to destroy all the earthly kingdoms or governments just as the Bible explains.
God and his son have been picking ones who are truly going to be loyal subjects to that Kingdom. The bible has given clear guidelines and to what one must do to stay neutral and not to be getting involved in them.
So just as Jesus and his followers remained neutral while he was here on earth to all the nations around him, a Christian has to do the same.