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Sports Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    27 Aug '09 15:27
    Maybe it's time to take sports out of High Schools and Colleges in America. Too much time and effort taken up generating revenue thru sports, and not enough effort on education. It's not going to happen of course, but schools should be for education. Not revenue production on the backs of young athletes.
  2. 27 Aug '09 15:38
    As much as I like sports and enjoyed watching big time basketball/ football in college, I actually agree. College sports in nothing short of a big business (just as pro sports are) with multi million dollar coaching salaries; 100,000+ seat football stadium with luxury boxes; own TV networks or deals with ESPN. Universities should be taxes on their revenue as other businesses are.
  3. 27 Aug '09 21:12 / 2 edits
    This applies almost entirely to basketball and football -- the other sports aren't major revenue sources. or big business. As a former college track and cross country runner, I can assure you there wasn't much money being made from my teams' efforts.

    The main problem is that the NBA and NFL are essentially relying on colleges to do the work that a minor league system should be doing. If NBA and NFL teams had minor league systems, they would be able to draft players right out of high school and develop them like like baseball and hockey teams do.

    As in the latter two sports, those who wish to get a college education can do so and develop their skills there -- but in football and basketball, the only good way to develop your skills is the college system - (although Europe is now becoming a legitimate option for basketball)
  4. 27 Aug '09 21:41
    Originally posted by bill718
    Maybe it's time to take sports out of High Schools and Colleges in America. Too much time and effort taken up generating revenue thru sports, and not enough effort on education. It's not going to happen of course, but schools should be for education. Not revenue production on the backs of young athletes.
    You are kidding right? Have you ever considered how many inner city kids have been given the chance to go to college simply because they are a talented athlete? You are proposing to erradicate this oppurtunity for people who would ordinarily not even go to college or possible finish high school.

    As for higher education, I got news for ya. Higher education is nothing more than a business decision. For example, you can attend your local community college and get a degree making better than minimum wage on average or you can go to Harvard and expect to making six figures when you graduate. Of course, you get what you pay for don't you? In fact, the higher the salary the higher the tuition and harder it is to get into certain programs.

    It reminds me of someone I know who attended a local community college for a few classes even though he finally got his degree at a prestigious university. He said that he learend just as much at the local community college. The only difference he said was the level of competition.

    In addtion, I know some people who never finished their degree but seem far more educated and well rounded than others who have graduated. How well one is educated has little to do with what school you may or may not attend, it has more to do with how much you enjoy learning. But what of the inner city kid who does not care so much about education or perhaps may not have the ability as others do? Is he any less of a person than someone who graduated from Harvard? Should they not have the oppurtunity to make more than the person who graduated from Harvard via professional sports?
  5. 27 Aug '09 21:43
    Originally posted by quackquack
    As much as I like sports and enjoyed watching big time basketball/ football in college, I actually agree. College sports in nothing short of a big business (just as pro sports are) with multi million dollar coaching salaries; 100,000+ seat football stadium with luxury boxes; own TV networks or deals with ESPN. Universities should be taxes on their revenue as other businesses are.
    Is there anything in this world that does not revolve around money?
  6. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    28 Aug '09 02:14
    Originally posted by whodey
    You are kidding right? Have you ever considered how many inner city kids have been given the chance to go to college simply because they are a talented athlete? You are proposing to erradicate this oppurtunity for people who would ordinarily not even go to college or possible finish high school.

    As for higher education, I got news for ya. Higher educati ...[text shortened]... he oppurtunity to make more than the person who graduated from Harvard via professional sports?
    Inner city kids??? Why all your sudden concern for them? Turning over a new leaf?
  7. 28 Aug '09 15:15
    Originally posted by bill718
    Inner city kids??? Why all your sudden concern for them? Turning over a new leaf?
    Well in case you have not noticed, I have posted innumerable threads about the segregation going on in public schools in terms of poor verese rich public schools. Poor school districts are notoriously prison like environments and does nothing more than continue the cycle of poverty amongst minorities.

    Where have you been mate?
  8. 28 Aug '09 16:35 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    Well in case you have not noticed, I have posted innumerable threads about the segregation going on in public schools in terms of poor verese rich public schools. Poor school districts are notoriously prison like environments and does nothing more than continue the cycle of poverty amongst minorities.

    Where have you been mate?
    I think bill718 was surprised that someone who is conservative would recognize that there is a difference between growing up rich and growing up poor.

    You have dared to bring up the class taboo -- you recognize that society is heavily segregated in terms of class. Rich people, middle class people, and poor people all pretty much live and associate with "their own kind". But anyone who dares to talk about this is denounced for "engaging in class warfare".
  9. 28 Aug '09 17:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Is there anything in this world that does not revolve around money?
    Then tax universities like you would any other business (including professional sports teams).
    I also think we'd help a lot more minorities if we spent more money convincing them that educaation was the way out of the ghetto as opposed to sports.
    Urban schools (including the one i used to teach at) function poorly because the students at like inmates not because the school thinks the students should be treated like prisoners.
  10. 28 Aug '09 20:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by quackquack
    Then tax universities like you would any other business (including professional sports teams).
    I also think we'd help a lot more minorities if we spent more money convincing them that educaation was the way out of the ghetto as opposed to sports.
    Urban schools (including the one i used to teach at) function poorly because the students at like inmates not because the school thinks the students should be treated like prisoners.
    I also think we'd help a lot more minorities if we spent more money convincing them that education was the way out of the ghetto

    This would be a very good general policy goal.

    But right now, does anyone know how to do this? Something besides an occasional speech by Bill Cosby. Spending money will do no good unless we have a workable plan.

    Based on your own experiences, have you been able to persuade or inspire any of your students about the importance of a good education? What approaches worked? Do have any ideas for a program that could successfully reach large numbers of poor kids?
  11. 28 Aug '09 21:17
    Unfortunately I don't have answers. Certain simple things like smaller classes defintely help. But there is no way schools can change without attitudes changing.

    For every 100,000 kids who try to become like Michael Jackson or Michael Jordan one will make it, maybe a few more will get a scholorship which opens doors to a better way of life.
    If 100,000 kids decided they wanted to be doctors or lawyers; most could go to college get a better job, meet similarly ambitious people and live a better life.

    The cultural element is huge. Some groups are over represents in graduate schools; some are over represented in entertainment. I think pursuing education is the best way to better your life.
  12. 29 Aug '09 02:01
    Originally posted by quackquack
    Then tax universities like you would any other business (including professional sports teams).
    I also think we'd help a lot more minorities if we spent more money convincing them that educaation was the way out of the ghetto as opposed to sports.
    Urban schools (including the one i used to teach at) function poorly because the students at like inmates not because the school thinks the students should be treated like prisoners.
    Spend more money convincing minorities that education is the way to get out of the ghetto? What needs to be done is to take them out of the ghetto enviornment so that they see there is life beyond the ghetto. It would be part of their educatoin. So instead of throwing more money at failing school systems in the ghetto, why not close them down altogether?
  13. 29 Aug '09 02:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    I think bill718 was surprised that someone who is conservative would recognize that there is a difference between growing up rich and growing up poor.

    You have dared to bring up the class taboo -- you recognize that society is heavily segregated in terms of class. Rich people, middle class people, and poor people all pretty much live and associate wit kind". But anyone who dares to talk about this is denounced for "engaging in class warfare".
    I think that it is assumed that I advocate class warfare, when in reality, all I'm advocating for is oppurtunity for the underprivlidged. Throwing these underprivlidged kids into college via Affirmative action, that is if they even graduate, when they have not been prepared academically to be there is nothing short of a joke. That kind of oppurtunity is less than fair.
  14. 29 Aug '09 02:27
    Originally posted by whodey
    Spend more money convincing minorities that education is the way to get out of the ghetto? What needs to be done is to take them out of the ghetto enviornment so that they see there is life beyond the ghetto. It would be part of their educatoin. So instead of throwing more money at failing school systems in the ghetto, why not close them down altogether?
    I have never been considered a liberal but are you suggestion no schools for poor people?
  15. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    30 Aug '09 22:38
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    I think bill718 was surprised that someone who is conservative would recognize that there is a difference between growing up rich and growing up poor.

    You have dared to bring up the class taboo -- you recognize that society is heavily segregated in terms of class. Rich people, middle class people, and poor people all pretty much live and associate wit ...[text shortened]... kind". But anyone who dares to talk about this is denounced for "engaging in class warfare".
    No...actually bill718 was only suprised at someone using the idea of inner city kids as an excuse to stray from the main point of this post. High School and College should be about education...not about using sports as a money machine. There are those however who like to stray from the point of the post.