MJ rips Lebron

Originally posted by shortcircuit
Robert Horry was a member of 7 championship teams. he wasn't even a starter on most of them. There is quite a bit of difference between being lucky to be around and being the main thrust of the franchise. You know that too.

Robert Horry won many playoff games for Hou, LA, and San. He wasn't lucky at all.

Its not like he won his rings the way Adam Morrison did.😀

Robert earned his.

Originally posted by MoneyManMike
Hey No1, one question. Does a player with 2514 career steals (or 2.3 per game) sound like an average defender to you?

I wish someone could come up with stats that tell how good a defensive player a person is. There seem to be 10,000 stats that measure a player's offensive skills, or their rebounding prowess (including the "triple double", the world's most annoying stat).

But for measuring defense, we're stuck with blocked shots and steals -- neither of which tells me how effective a player is or was at stopping another player cold one on one, or being able to prevent the big man from posting up in the paint, or denying him the ball, or being quick to react on a pick and roll, or pick up the open man on a double-team play.

Originally posted by MoneyManMike
Hey No1, one question. Does a player with 2514 career steals (or 2.3 per game) sound like an average defender to you?

It seems a rather irrelevant stat to what I claimed which was:

MJ wasn't anything special as a one on one defender.

Originally posted by no1marauder
If you're taking a marginal shot, you're not doing your job (unless the clock is about to hit zero). It's seems what you are implying is that Larry and Magic were smarter players. They were of course, but it's hardly to MJ's credit that he took more bad shots than Larry and Magic. BTW, what's your excuse for Jordan having a lower free throw shooting perc ...[text shortened]... off against Luc Longley as a battle of big men in a NBA Championship is cringeworthy.

Is there a stat for % of time in double coverage? I would argue that MJ spent much of his time on court in double coverage.

Originally posted by cheshirecatstevens
Is there a stat for % of time in double coverage? I would argue that MJ spent much of his time on court in double coverage.

You'd be wrong; perimeter players are rarely double teamed and Micheal rarely faced one. He was constantly allowed to go one on one even in game situations (as in his famous game winning push off of Byron Russell).

But people who have brought the hype will come up with ANY rationale to try to save the claim that "MJ was the greatest" even though the stats say otherwise.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You'd be wrong; perimeter players are rarely double teamed and Micheal rarely faced one. He was constantly allowed to go one on one even in game situations (as in his famous game winning push off of Byron Russell).

But people who have brought the hype will come up with ANY rationale to try to save the claim that "MJ was the greatest" even though the stats say otherwise.

The stats except for the most important stat of all: points. MJ had almost 2.5 more ppg than any other player but Wilt in NBA history

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

In Player Efficiency Rating

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html

MJ led the league 7 straight years, including some of them when Magic and Larry were still in their primes; and he is #1 all time in that all-encompassing number

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

The stats give plenty of support to the proposition that Jordan was the greatest of all time.

Originally posted by sh76
The stats except for the most important stat of all: points. MJ had almost 2.5 more ppg than any other player but Wilt in NBA history

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

In Player Efficiency Rating

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html

MJ led the league 7 straight years, including some of them when Magic a ...[text shortened]...

The stats give plenty of support to the proposition that Jordan was the greatest of all time.

Surely your knowledge of basketball isn't so deficient that you believe that whatever player scores the most points is the "greatest"?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Surely your knowledge of basketball isn't so deficient that you believe that whatever player scores the most points is the "greatest"?

I love how your argument relies on fractions of a percent, but when someone else brings up stats (which are typically overwhelming in favor of Jordan), you brush them aside.

Facts:

1. Jordan has the second most total steals all time.

2. Jordan has more titles then either Bird or Magic.

3. Jordan has more Finals MVP's then Bird or Magic.

4. Jordan has more Regular Season MVP awards then Bird or Magic.

5. Jordan has more Defensive honors then Bird or Magic, combined.

6. Jordan had an Olympic Gold Medal before the age of 25, while Lebron had an Olympic Bronze Medal before the age of 25.



Burden of Proof for No1:

1. Whether the quality of play was better in the 80's than the 90's

2. The quality of 1 on 1 defense Jordan played

3. Jordan's basketball IQ vs. Bird and Magic's

4. Whether Jordan's DPOY was based on his popularity or whether it was because he averaged 1.6 blocks per game and 3.2 steals per game; something the league hadn't ever seen before.

5. How the quality of play now compares with the 80's, and the inferences that can be made when comparing the early careers of Jordan and Lebron.


...good luck

Originally posted by MoneyManMike
Robert Horry won many playoff games for Hou, LA, and San. He wasn't lucky at all.

Its not like he won his rings the way Adam Morrison did.😀

Robert earned his.

Horry never won ANY games for any of those teams. He was a role player on most of them. He was never a great scorer. He was pretty gritty in the defense department. But he will never be confused with the all time greats in anything he ever did. I know this because I saw most of his games when he played for Houston and for San Antonio. Look at the rosters of those three teams you mentioned, and tell me if he was anything better than the 4th best player on any of those teams. The answer is NO.

And, he was lucky to be a part of those teams. All of them had at least two players who were among the 50 greatest of all time (as chosen by SI).

Originally posted by shortcircuit
Horry never won ANY games for any of those teams. He was a role player on most of them. He was never a great scorer. He was pretty gritty in the defense department. But he will never be confused with the all time greats in anything he ever did. I know this because I saw most of his games when he played for Houston and for San Antonio. Look at the roster ...[text shortened]... l of them had at least two players who were among the 50 greatest of all time (as chosen by SI).

Role players can win games too. Allow me to refresh your memory:

YouTube&feature=related

Originally posted by MoneyManMike
Role players can win games too. Allow me to refresh your memory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0gWflbw_E4&feature=related

Careful now....you don't mean to insinuate that the entire game was won by a role player...do you???

Originally posted by no1marauder
Surely your knowledge of basketball isn't so deficient that you believe that whatever player scores the most points is the "greatest"?

Oh, so a few tenths of a percent in free throw shooting percentage is significant, but points are not?

In any case, did you read the rest of the post?

Originally posted by shortcircuit
Careful now....you don't mean to insinuate that the entire game was won by a role player...do you???

Earlier you stated that Horry was lucky to be on all of those championship teams, which implies that they could have won without him. I am arguing that, even though Horry was a role player, he was also a key piece to the puzzle. Could Horry have won as the number 1 option? Definitely not. Did he make big plays at the end of games during those championship runs, which consequently helped put his teams over the top? Definitely yes.

Originally posted by sh76
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,' "

I knew MJ, I watched MJ and Lebron, you're no MJ.

*yawn*😴

Originally posted by Badwater
*yawn*😴

So, you weigh in on the 44th post in the thread to tell us all that you're not interested in the thread topic.

Great job, there.