24 Jul 10
Originally posted by MoneyManMike
Facts:
1. Jordan has the second most total steals all time...
6. Jordan had an Olympic Gold Medal before the age of 25, while Lebron had an Olympic Bronze Medal before the age of 25...
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Just want to make a couple of points.
Steals were not an official NBA stat until the 1973-74 season. Therefore, the only thing you can say is th ...[text shortened]... were beyond his control. But Magic was a better high school AND college player than Jordan was.
24 Jul 10
Originally posted by TheBloopsorry, some of my comments didn't post
Saying Jordan is #2 all tiem in steals is like saying Olajuwon is the greatest shot blocker in NBA history.
Blocks and steals were not official NBA stats until 1973-74. Jordan is #2 in steals since that time, but there are a number of players who probably had a lot more steals than Jordan (e.g. Jerry West), but who never got credit for a single steal.
Olajuwon has more blocked shots than Wilt or Russell, according to the NBA.
Re: Olympics: During the '76 Olympics, Magic was going into his senior year in high school. He was gone to the NBA by 1980, but even if he had remained in college, the USA boycotted the 1980 games anyway. Magic was prevented from taking part in the Olympics by factors that were beyond his control.
The bronze medal in 2004 was a complete and utter embarrassment.
24 Jul 10
Originally posted by shortcircuitThe one thing that MJ (and David Stern) were the best at is marketing.
Well, obviously you know something that all of the remainder of the the knowledgeable basketball world do not. That is why MJ is regarded as 'the best that ever played".
You can argue until you are blue in the face, but Larry couldn't out jump or out shoot MJ. Magic couldn't cover MJ. I am not saying that Magic and Larry were not great players...they ...[text shortened]... of all time, none of the three gets my vote. Pete Maravich was unequaled as a pure shooter.
Basketball isn't simply about jumping. To say that Bird couldn't outshoot Jordan simply means you never saw Bird play the game.
24 Jul 10
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderExcellent points.
[b]A triple double through 14 whole games? Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double for an entire season in 1961-62 and missed doing it again in 1963-64 by 7 rebounds. Defensive Player of the Year is a popularity contest; MJ wasn't anything special as a one on one defender.
Let's go to the stats: Jordan averaged 6.2 rebounds a game, Magic s were constantly being re-written specifically to try to control their dominance.
Oscar actually averaged a triple double for his first five seasons in the NBA. He only did it in the one individual year (1962) as you pointed out, but after five years in the NBA, his career stats were over 30/10/10.
Re; three point shooting. Let's also not forget that David Stern actually moved the 3 point line in for a couple of seasons because the Bulls had no inside offensive presence (they were totally exposed in 1995).
Wilt and Russell certainly never had the very rules of the game re-written to help their games.
24 Jul 10
Besides, if you ask any player in the NBA during the careers of Magic and Jordan which guy they'd rather have on their team, everyone up to and including Scottie Pippen would much rather have been a teammate of Magic rather than Jordan. There was never a time when Magic put his own stats ahead of winning. Can't say that about Jordan. Same goes with Bird. Any player in the NBA would rather have played with Bird than Jordan.
We'll see another Michael Jordan. We'll never see another Magic. And we'll never see another Bird.
Fact: Without Scottie Pippen, Jordan never even played on a winning team. All five of Jordan's Pippen-less teams had losing records.
24 Jul 10
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeHorry was one of a plethora of players who could have performed the role he played.
Earlier you stated that Horry was lucky to be on all of those championship teams, which implies that they could have won without him. I am arguing that, even though Horry was a role player, he was also a key piece to the puzzle. Could Horry have won as the number 1 option? Definitely not. Did he make big plays at the end of games during those championship runs, which consequently helped put his teams over the top? Definitely yes.
My contention is he was in the right place at the right time to be part of those championship teams....i.e. "lucky to be there".
24 Jul 10
Originally posted by TheBloopWRONG!!!
The one thing that MJ (and David Stern) were the best at is marketing.
Basketball isn't simply about jumping. To say that Bird couldn't outshoot Jordan simply means you never saw Bird play the game.
I saw Bird and Magic and Jordan play. I know what each player did best. They all had the will to win and never say die attitude. They all wanted the ball at crunch time.
Jordan was the best athlete and had the best skill set of the three.
That isn't marketing. They marketed MJ because he was the best and could put more butts in the chairs.
24 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by TheBloopThat is crap!!!
Besides, if you ask any player in the NBA during the careers of Magic and Jordan which guy they'd rather have on their team, everyone up to and including Scottie Pippen would much rather have been a teammate of Magic rather than Jordan. There was never a time when Magic put his own stats ahead of winning. Can't say that about Jordan. Same goes with Bir even played on a winning team. All five of Jordan's Pippen-less teams had losing records.
I watched Scottie Pippen fall flat on his ass in Houston when he had the arsenal around him. Scottie was made by Micheal Jordan....not the other way around!!!
Oh, and bring on those interviews you had with the NBA players of that time. Speculation on your part does not come close to being fact.
I do agree with one thing you have said....Magic was a consummate "team" player.
More so than Bird, but Bird also wanted to win, however it happened. But Bird wanted the ball at crunch time. It was nice to be able to dish it to McHale or Parrish, or DJ if he was jammed.
But the question here was not who was the greatest guy to be around, or the best friend in the locker room, or even the greatest teammate. It was who was the greatest "player". Now, you don't have to agree, but even you can't argue that Jordan's "skills" were superior to all of the players you have mentioned.
25 Jul 10
Originally posted by TheBloopLOL
they were totally exposed in 1995
That's funny. you take the only year in the era when a Jordan Bulls team didn't win an NBA title, with 3 before and 3 after, and, no less, a season in which Jordan only played part of the second half to tune up, and say they were "exposed"??
Please.
Bird won 3 titles. Does that mean he was "exposed" every other year.
As for Jordan having Pippen; Pippen was a nice player, but he and the other cast of players around Jordan were not as good as the surrounding casts of the Bird Celtics or the Magic Lakers.