1. Joined
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    08 Nov '07 19:272 edits
    Here is the official NFL Rulebook:

    http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/digestofrules

    There is not one specific rule contained in this book pertaining to videotaping. There is simply a section called Unfair Acts that states:

    "The Commissioner has sole authority to investigate and to take appropriate disciplinary or corrective measures if any club action, nonparticipant interference, or emergency occurs in an NFL game which he deems so unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of a game. "

    Meaning that it is at the Commissioner's sole discretion to determine what is unfair and act accordingly.

    I draw two conclusions from this:

    1. The commissioner was acting within his power to declare the Patriots vidoetaping unfair and was within his power to fine them as he saw fit for the action.

    2. Prior to Goodell taking over as commissioner of the NFL in August of 2006 there was NO rule in place regarding videotaping. Therefore, if an NFL team did use video taping tactics prior to 2006, it was legal based on the fact that commissioner Taglibue did not raise the issue and did not punish any team for using this tactic. Therefore, either the tactic was not used by the Patriots or any other team or it was not considered illegal or unfair.

    I have a couple of questions for those of you that are declaring the Patriots cheaters and that their previous success is tainted or should be marked with an asterisk:

    1. Do any of you have access to a rule or a memo from A commissioner prior to the Patriots being caught on September 13th, 2007 that clearly states that using videotape on the sidelines is illegal or unfair?

    2. Do any of you have access to the supposed memo that went out from Goodell to all NFL teams before the 2007 season warning about using videotaping tactics?

    I looked for a link for a while over the internet and could not find any information pertaining to the above two questions.

    Had Goodell warned teams against using videotapes prior to the beginning of the 2007 season, then indeed one can accuse the Patriots of cheating in the Jets game and fine them accordingly. However, you cannot hold it against them or anyone else for using such a tactic prior to 2007 if there was no written rule in place or memo from a commissioner stating otherwise.
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    08 Nov '07 19:43
    Actually even before a memo went out everyone knows video taping the other team is cheating. It, as you pointed out is in the Unfair Acts section, of the rule book. Just like I think it is idiotic to claim that it was not cheating to use performance enhancing drugs before a sport specifically banned them (it would even more clearly fall in this section because the effect on the game is even clearer), I have no sympathy for the Patriots even if there was no prior memo.
  3. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    08 Nov '07 19:51
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    Actually even before a memo went out everyone knows video taping the other team is cheating. It, as you pointed out is in the Unfair Acts section, of the rule book. Just like I think it is idiotic to claim that it was not cheating to use performance enhancing drugs before a sport specifically banned them (it would even more clearly fall in this s ...[text shortened]... the game is even clearer), I have no sympathy for the Patriots even if there was no prior memo.
    Oh, EVERYONE KNOWS! Wow! Fantastic!~

    That's plain silly to say, and it makes YOU SILLY.

    P-
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    08 Nov '07 19:55
    What is silly is to get caught your hand in the cookie jar and pretend that you did not know it was against the rules. Fact: the Patriots cheat.
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    08 Nov '07 19:582 edits
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    It, as you pointed out is in the Unfair Acts section, of the rule book. .
    No videotaping is not pointed out in the Unfair Acts section of the rulebook or anywhere else in the rulebook for that matter. That is the point. Declaring it illegal and punishing the Patriots for it was at the sole discretion of commissioner Goodell and there was no written rule to interpret by the Patriots or any other team prior to this year. The Patriots were made an example of by a former intern of the New York Jets and now commissioner of the NFL.
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    08 Nov '07 19:591 edit
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    What is silly is to get caught your hand in the cookie jar and pretend that you did not know it was against the rules. Fact: the Patriots cheat.
    Show me where there is a rule against it prior to September 13th, 2007. In other words produce or shut up.

    It is frightening that someone as dense as you is teaching high school math.
  7. Standard memberPocketKings
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    08 Nov '07 20:021 edit
    Is there rule that says the running back can't pull out a gun and blow away the approaching linebacker?

    Just because it's not written doesn't mean it should be done
  8. Joined
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    08 Nov '07 20:051 edit
    Originally posted by PocketKings
    Is there rule that says the running back can't pull out a gun and blow away the approaching linebacker?

    Just because it's not written doesn't mean it should be done
    Yes there is a rule against that. It's called murder and it is a crime.

    The exaggerated comparisons are growing more and more ridiculous with each post.
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    08 Nov '07 20:16
    If Unfair Acts is in the rule book, then you don't need a prior memo, twelve warnings or any additional specific rule banning it. It is not comples at all the Patriots cheated and got caught.
  10. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    08 Nov '07 20:17
    Originally posted by PocketKings
    Is there rule that says the running back can't pull out a gun and blow away the approaching linebacker?

    Just because it's not written doesn't mean it should be done
    YOUR digging.

    P-
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    08 Nov '07 20:19
    and these are the same patriot fans who argued a rule is a rule when brady fumbles in a playoff game and walks off the field believing the game was lost but is saved by the tuck rule.
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    08 Nov '07 20:21
    furthermore the patriots should have been disciplined for unfair acts when they brought a snow plow onto the field for only their field goal kicker.
    It seems that when you are used to previously openly cheating and getting away with it (snow plows) and getting calls on rules even your own quarter back did not know about (tuck rule) you cannot believe that when you get caught secretly cheating people will be so crazy as to call you a cheater.
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    08 Nov '07 20:361 edit
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    and these are the same patriot fans who argued a rule is a rule when brady fumbles in a playoff game and walks off the field believing the game was lost but is saved by the tuck rule.
    Actually I admit that that situation was shaky. I also thought it was a fumble when I first saw it. However, the officials ruled otherwise.

    My point is not to complain that Goodell ruled that the Patriots acted unfairly by videotaping during the Jets game. My point was that this ruling was done at the discretion of this particular commissioner, that there was no rule nor precedence in place regarding videotaping prior to this commissioner taking charge of the office. Therefore, to claim that the Patriots cheated in previous years and Superbowls is a stretch based on:

    1. There is no evidence that they cheated.

    2. Even if they did use videotaping prior to 2007, there was not a rule nor league policy in place that I know of against such tactics and therefore it was legal and not cheating.

    This is not hard to understand. Try and follow along please.
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    08 Nov '07 20:38
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    furthermore the patriots should have been disciplined for unfair acts when they brought a snow plow onto the field for only their field goal kicker.
    It seems that when you are used to previously openly cheating and getting away with it (snow plows) and getting calls on rules even your own quarter back did not know about (tuck rule) you cannot b ...[text shortened]... eve that when you get caught secretly cheating people will be so crazy as to call you a cheater.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_playoffs,_1976-77

    Tuck Rule? Huh! Thats part of the game. You should have seen the loser call they made against the Pats in the abaovementioned article that sent Stabler and those brain cancer steroid rotting weiner Raiders to the Super Bowl in the 70's....also, this morning on Mike & Mike in the morning, a very credible ex-athlete sports announcer ( Mike Golic) said that he knows that many (not all) but many teams do similar things the Patriots did with the camera, they just got caught. Add to the fact that the NFL "establishment" hates Belichick because he doesnt kiss media a$$, and youve got a mountain being made out of a molehill. I am AMAZED that no one notices how much like a man this guy took his fine and moved on. I am AMAZED that he has the ability of taking habitual offender-thugs like Corey Dillon and Randy Moss and turning them into model athletes again too! But then again, he IS the greatest coach of all time...Go Pats
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    08 Nov '07 20:40
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    furthermore the patriots should have been disciplined for unfair acts when they brought a snow plow onto the field for only their field goal kicker.
    It seems that when you are used to previously openly cheating and getting away with it (snow plows) and getting calls on rules even your own quarter back did not know about (tuck rule) you cannot b ...[text shortened]... eve that when you get caught secretly cheating people will be so crazy as to call you a cheater.
    I think the commissioner at the time would have been justified for penalizing the Patriots for using a snowplow. I'm surprised that this didn't happen. But that incident has nothing to do with the current team ownership or the coach. The team was owned at the time by the Sullivan family whom in my opinion were the worst owners in the NFL.
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