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  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    12 Dec '09 21:10 / 1 edit
    I sincerely hope Notre Dames new coach is going to breath some life into that program. I don't like seeing my favorite college football team sink to the lows it has in the last 10+ years, and I'm really tired of the USC Trojans using Notre Dame as a punching bag. It's time to turn things around!
  2. 12 Dec '09 22:38
    They're not there yet man!
  3. 14 Dec '09 15:09
    Originally posted by bill718
    I sincerely hope Notre Dames new coach is going to breath some life into that program. I don't like seeing my favorite college football team sink to the lows it has in the last 10+ years, and I'm really tired of the USC Trojans using Notre Dame as a punching bag. It's time to turn things around!
    Notre Dame...USC...

    if you really want to turn things around, how about a national championship for a team like Cincinnati (or Boise State or TCU)? Or at the very least, how about the CHANCE for a national championship for a team like Cincinnati (or Boise St or TCU)?

    I was hoping that Kelly would resist the temptation to take the "prestige" job, and focus on making the Cincinnati job INTO a prestige job. Coaches that turn no-name programs into great teams shouldn't leave their team in the lurch just when it's had a chance to taste a trifle of glory.
  4. 14 Dec '09 15:20 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    Notre Dame...USC...

    if you really want to turn things around, how about a national championship for a team like Cincinnati (or Boise State or TCU)? Or at the very least, how about the CHANCE for a national championship for a team like Cincinnati (or Boise St or TCU)?

    I was hoping that Kelly would resist the temptation to take the "prestige" job, and ...[text shortened]... uldn't leave their team in the lurch just when it's had a chance to taste a trifle of glory.
    THe whole affair reminds me of the coach of WVU that went to Michigan. All he had to do was beat Pitt the final game to go to the NCG. If he had, he would have faced Ohio State and probably won the game and been a national champion. Instead, however, he was to preoccupied with his new job he was going to and botched the game against Pitt and lost!!! Then he left the team as they went on the road against Oklahoma and the destroyed them without his sorry arse!!

    So here we have a man who has surrendered a national championship to go to a team that has not even been to a bowl since he has been there. He would not only be a state hero for generations in West Virginia, he would also have had a NC on his resume for the rest of his life. Now he is hated in both WVU and Michigan and has nothing to show on his resume. Serves him right. LOL. Now I'm not saying the same will happen to coach Brian, I"m just saying its bad Karma to walk away from those around you who have relied on you for such a long time in their greatest hour of need. I will say this, however, coach Brian did not fluff off Pitt the way WVU did. Kudos for him for at least that much.
  5. 14 Dec '09 15:38
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    Notre Dame...USC...

    if you really want to turn things around, how about a national championship for a team like Cincinnati (or Boise State or TCU)? Or at the very least, how about the CHANCE for a national championship for a team like Cincinnati (or Boise St or TCU)?

    I was hoping that Kelly would resist the temptation to take the "prestige" job, and ...[text shortened]... uldn't leave their team in the lurch just when it's had a chance to taste a trifle of glory.
    How can you say that Coach Kelly shouldn't have taken the job and should focus on making Cincy a top flight program? What if he thinks the city is a s--thole? What if his goal all along was to use the Bearcat job as a stepping stone to a bigger school? And who in their right mind would prefer to stay at Cincinatti over going to Notre Dame?

    Like the athlete, the coach must also look after himself because no one else will. Loyalty is fleeting in sports.
  6. 14 Dec '09 17:36
    Originally posted by darvlay
    How can you say that Coach Kelly shouldn't have taken the job and should focus on making Cincy a top flight program? What if he thinks the city is a s--thole? What if his goal all along was to use the Bearcat job as a stepping stone to a bigger school? And who in their right mind would prefer to stay at Cincinatti over going to Notre Dame?

    Like the ath ...[text shortened]... he coach must also look after himself because no one else will. Loyalty is fleeting in sports.
    Part of looking after oneself is looking at oneself in the mirror -- which is something no else can do for you. I guess if Kelly still likes what he sees, I can't argue.

    Loyalty is indeed fleeting in sports. Which is why it would be refreshing to see more of it.
  7. 14 Dec '09 17:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by darvlay
    How can you say that Coach Kelly shouldn't have taken the job and should focus on making Cincy a top flight program? What if he thinks the city is a s--thole? What if his goal all along was to use the Bearcat job as a stepping stone to a bigger school? And who in their right mind would prefer to stay at Cincinatti over going to Notre Dame?

    Like the ath ...[text shortened]... he coach must also look after himself because no one else will. Loyalty is fleeting in sports.
    Who wouldn't leave the Bear Cats and go go ND? Well we will just see if he gets the oppurtunity to go to a major BCS bowl with ND undefeated. My guess is if it is with ND, they go right to the NCG, however, with the Bear Cats, that is not the case is it? In addition, it is my guess he will never make it to the NCG with ND.
  8. 14 Dec '09 18:03
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    Loyalty is indeed fleeting in sports. Which is why it would be refreshing to see more of it.
    Unforunately, in too many places loyalty only gets you so much and rarely guarantees you anything more than an extra minute or two before the axe falls.
  9. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    14 Dec '09 20:53
    You guys really do believe in Cinderella, don't you? This is business...it is a job. Screw your loyalty, woulda coulda shoulda attitude. Let's look at it like this. If you want a better job than the one you have and one gets dumped in your lap, do you take it and run, or do you turn it down because you are presently working on a project that isn't quite finished yet? You are a liar if you say you turn down the cherry to stay with the prune.

    You have so many chances at the brass ring and you take them when they are available. You all know this is about money, if it wasn't you wouldn't even have the sports to talk about because no one would be able to fund it. Wake up and smell the coffee!! Got news for you. Jim Harbaugh will be the next coach who will take the leap or he will be handsomely rewarded to stay at Stanford. Either way, he will get his. Brian Kelly was set to take Notre Dame's job last year when they decided to let Charlie Weiss have one more year. Cincinnati wasn't squat when kelly took the program over. Cincy is not bigtime and is never going to be on par with the bigtime programs. The money is where the bigtime programs are. Life sucks I know.

    As far as Rich Riodriguez goes, so what? Michigan is a far better position than West Virginia ever thought about being. If you recall, before they took Rodriguez, they had Les Miles set to jump from LSU to come back and coach his alma mater. Some say that would have been a major step down. Who knows.

    The contracts are written with buyout clauses for a reason boys and girls....so they can be executed if they have to. I guarantee you that Notre Dame told Kelly we want you onboard before January 1st if you want the job so they can get to work on recruitment. I also guarantee you ND is picking up the 1 million dollar buyout. As far as the players go, they are getting a real life lesson that life isn't fair and it doesn't always go the way you want. Since Cincy had no chance at the national title, why turn down his dream job to coach a game for possibly third place, but more likely 5th or 6th place?

    You see players sign on for 4 year scholarships and leave to go pro after two or three years. Why should't they be under the same obligation to the coach and scholl to stay until the end of their commitment? They have a free ride and the coach is a salaried employee. It is a job...nothing more. Please stop trying to place your moral or ethical values on it.
  10. 14 Dec '09 22:59
    It's not really an ethical issue per se -- if it's been Kelly's lifelong ambition to coach at Notre Dame, then go for it. Or if Cincinnati really screwed him, then by all means leave.

    It's more an issue of what is really the more satisfying path. You can coach at We Win Every Year University where all the top recruits are going to go there no matter what. Even if you win a championship, there'll be that sense that dozens of other coaches could have done the same thing. Or you can be the guy that takes a garbage program and builds into something special - so when you finally do win a title, you'll know you earned it.

    As a Rutgers alumus, Kelly's situation has had me thinking about Greg Schiano who was in a similar position a couple years ago and he had the opportunity to dump Dear Old Rutgers and jump to the greener pastures of Michigan or Miami. He chose to stay. (Yes he did get some $$$ out of it.). I suspect he's kind of happy he's not at Michigan right now.
  11. 14 Dec '09 23:56
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    You guys really do believe in Cinderella, don't you? This is business...it is a job. Screw your loyalty, woulda coulda shoulda attitude. Let's look at it like this. If you want a better job than the one you have and one gets dumped in your lap, do you take it and run, or do you turn it down because you are presently working on a project that isn't quite ...[text shortened]... a job...nothing more. Please stop trying to place your moral or ethical values on it.
    Thanks for clearing this all up. What would the sports forum do without you.
  12. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    15 Dec '09 06:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by YEAH BOY
    Thanks for clearing this all up. What would the sports forum do without you.
    They would be forced to listen to your drivel I suppose.
  13. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    15 Dec '09 06:46
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    It's not really an ethical issue per se -- if it's been Kelly's lifelong ambition to coach at Notre Dame, then go for it. Or if Cincinnati really screwed him, then by all means leave.

    It's more an issue of what is really the more satisfying path. You can coach at We Win Every Year University where all the top recruits are going to go there no matter wh ...[text shortened]... get some $$$ out of it.). I suspect he's kind of happy he's not at Michigan right now.
    In this case, Kelly ND was the pinnacle for him. He grew up Catholic and it had been a lifelong dream to coach there. As I said before, ND nearly pulled the trigger on him the year before. He gets his shot at the brass ring and he jumped on it.

    Also, your assertion that You can coach at We Win Every Year University where all the top recruits are going to go there no matter what. Even if you win a championship, there'll be that sense that dozens of other coaches could have done the same thing. doesn't really ring true now in light of ND's recent fall from greatness, OU's fall, USC's fall, FSU's fall, Michigan's fall. I can go on. These are all major powers that will get back to the top. It wasn't long ago that Alabama was down either. Ten years ago Texas was down. The key is if you can get a great facility with a great coaching staff, you can generate long durations of winning barring a rash of injuries or classroom difficulties.
  14. 15 Dec '09 15:35 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    In this case, Kelly ND was the pinnacle for him. He grew up Catholic and it had been a lifelong dream to coach there. As I said before, ND nearly pulled the trigger on him the year before. He gets his shot at the brass ring and he jumped on it.

    Also, your assertion that [b]You can coach at We Win Every Year University where all the top recruits are g generate long durations of winning barring a rash of injuries or classroom difficulties.
    [/b]
    The big key to generating long durations of winning is the ability to attract top-notch recruits every year. You can have the best coaches on the field and world-class facilities, but if you can't recruit the best athletes, you won't have the best team. The best you can hope for is to have a lucky year or two. As such, I consider recruitment to be the most important quality a coach can have.

    However -- there are certain "brand-name" programs that will always be able to attract top-notch recruits. The "brand" is mainly the result of a long history of winning in the past, and might not have much to do with the state of the current facilities. That is why I call them "We Win Every Year University". These schools don't actually win "every year" - there's going to be years when people get hurt, or when too many major recruits fail to live up to the hype - but even then you know that next year's team will very likely be a winner.

    That is why I greatly enjoy watching the non brand-name programs and the non brand-name conferences. These are places where you can't just open the campus gates and welcome the new crop of bluechips. You have to go out there and sell the program. You need to make presentations that will make prospects look past the usual list and consider going to Where-the-heck-is-that? University. Coaches that can do this and have success at these schools impress me greatly.

    The real challenge, though, is to build on that success and turn your school into a true "brand" program that will succeed for many years to come. This means sticking with the program after the big breakthrough and continuing the hard work of marketing it every year until it becomes a perennial winner.

    As for Kelly, if Notre Dame was his lifelong dream, I can't really get down on him too much. I just hope his successor at Cincinnati is able to maintain the momentum -- (Just as long as the Bearcats don't mess up Rutgers if the Men in Scarlet are having an undefeated season )
  15. 15 Dec '09 17:28
    The NCAA (who has no problems restricting everything) should only permit head coaches to transfer during certain periods. It trivialized Cinncinnati's year when its coach is no disinterested in his team that he leaves before the bowl game. It also damages the whole bowl system and one of the few games that actually is intersting.