New Joiners Tournament

Originally posted by Russ
A little late to reply now, I know, but...

The intention was for those who have not played in a tournament yet to get in on this one before all the spaces went to people playing in existing tournaments.

-Russ

There are players in this tournament who has been playing here (RHP) over year longer than I have.
Am I also considered a newcomer?? LOL

Harri
a.k.a. Luck

okay, it just started off...
3 points for a win, 1 for a draw.
Okay, I got this one (this game here is called football - I quite new, U have to know...) 😀
Leading player or players progress. Winner of the final group wins the tournament.
No, sorry, I just don't understand it: Only the groups best player (pts)keeps on playing? And if there are two equal the one who won more points ("progress" ). So probably I'll be out soon 😠
thanks for making it a bit clearer for me...
th

Originally posted by thire
okay, it just started off...
[b]3 points for a win, 1 for a draw.
Okay, I got this one (this game here is called football - I quite new, U have to know...) 😀
Leading player or players progress. Winner of the final group wins the tournament.
No, sorry, I just don't understand it: Only the groups best player (pts)keeps on playing? And if there a ...[text shortened]... progress" ). So probably I'll be out soon 😠
thanks for making it a bit clearer for me...
th[/b]

if 2 people are tied than they both go throu

The leading player(s) of each group go through? Thats not very fair group 1 is much stronger then some of the other groups :'(

Originally posted by Hentschel
The leading player(s) of each group go through? Thats not very fair group 1 is much stronger then some of the other groups :'(

U R right:
The system seems not to be fair:
in the fist group there is the "best" (highest rating) play, the 13th best... in the second is the 2nd, the 14th best... so when you see the players in "classes" of 12 in Group 12 there are the best players of each class! To be in class 1 or twelve can depand just on 2 rating-pts, but the Group 1 is much stronger!
(that's for example I thing I would have liked to know before signing in!)
A fair way to make the goups could be:
best -> Gr. 1
2nd -> Gr. 2
...
12 -> Gr. 12
13 -> Gr. 12 and not Gr. 1
14 -> Gr. 11...

what do you think about that?
th

or one could optimize by saying sum(abs(sum(ratings)-meanrating) should be minimized subject to... something that best players are in diffent groups ("seeding&quot😉 🙄

It's funny how the group with the strongest players is always the strongest group. 🙄

Life isn't fair. The way RHP sets up the tourney is a normal way to do it. It's like cards, top card is highest rated, bottom is lowest. Deal out the groups then go back around for the opponents. Continue until cards are completely dealt. Done.

If you've ever competed in a real tournament you'd realize that this is about as good as it gets. My first OTB tourney I entered I had to play someone rated 1500+... call it the luck of the draw... or badluck of the draw depending on your viewpoint. You will NEVER design a way that will make everyone happy. Sorry Guys.

Hey ChessNut again!

I think that the system is not (very) fair, I said why and I proposed a better one. What do you thnik about it?
I don't know anything about chess tunaments, but in Tennis for example there are thnigs like wildcards, ...
th

Originally posted by thire

A fair way to make the goups could be:
best -> Gr. 1
2nd -> Gr. 2
...
12 -> Gr. 12
13 -> Gr. 12 and not Gr. 1
14 -> Gr. 11...

what do you think about that?
th

I think you need to continue and explain how it's fair that #15 goes to Group#1, or someone lower would have to play in Group#1. At least if you want them to have an opponent.

Your way is really the same as what I explained.

It's never 'fair' for someone. It would only be fair if everyone played someone rated lower than themselves which is an impossibility.

I guess I'm agreeing in a round about sort of way but it's just as fair as what is being done now so why complain?

Originally posted by ChessNut
I think you need to continue and explain how it's fair that #15 goes to Group#1, or someone lower would have to play in Group#1. At least if you want them to have an opponent.

Your way is really the same as what I explained.

It's ...[text shortened]... but it's just as fair as what is being done now so why complain?

Oh, yes there are some ways to make it fair:

I let you make the groups, but you don't know your rating: When you are smart enough you will make "fair" groups!
In fact this means what you mentioned above: saying "it's fair" depends on who you are (strong player or young, unexperienced...)! If it does not depend on that the system is fair (Imagine a world where you can allocate all resources as you like - you give all the money to europe and america and let india suffer. After that you are born somewhere in the world (india or china or america). Knowing the way the story goes but not where you will participate - how would you allocate resources - got it?).
So we have to have a look at the understanding of the creator of the turnament and his understanding of "fair": He made the turnament and he made it easier for some players to succeed (which means reaching a higher round then they could expect with their rating) then for others.
Another "fair" way (for me as a weak player 😉 ) would be to generate random groups not looking at all at the player's rankings. This system is good, but just for me, not for Capa and Hentschel. 😀

But apart from this philosophical stuff:
My system (which is actually not my invention) is better, because:
When you devide all players into classes of 12 players, then all the best players of each class play in Group 1 (now). In the other system in Group one you have player No 1 of class one, player no 12 of class 2, playler no 1 of class 3, ... (sum: 1+12+1+12+1+12=39). The sum in class 9 is 9+4+9+4+9+4=39. You got the system and the argument?
An equivalent system would be not just always go up and down but let the "third class" start at group 6... 🙄

"fair" means always "more fair then this or that system"

BTW: I am in a quiet weak group 😉

Another criteria for "fair" could be transparency: I didn't know anything about the turnament when subscribing.
Just imagine - If I don't like turnaments where good players are perfered I simply don't join the turnament. But if many weak players do so, the average strenght of the participants increases and we have a "better" turnament.
Just inform prople before they subscribe about all technical details and the turney will be much "fairer"!

I don't complain at all - i just mention thing that could be made in aother (I think better 🙂 ) way!

I believe Thires' system is a good one. The only other viable suggestion would be to make the groups randomly that way its just the luck of the draw. All I'm really asking for is to informed before the tornament which system is being used that way no one can complain. About the philosophical question, shouldn't the best player in the tornament win? ... theortically yes. Thus the better players (including me) shouldn't be knoked out in the 1st round just because the best player was also there.🙄

Originally posted by Hentschel
I believe Thires' system is a good one. The only other viable suggestion would be to make the groups randomly that way its just the luck of the draw. All I'm really asking for is to informed before the tornament which system is being ...[text shortened]... ut in the 1st round just because the best player was also there.🙄

Yes!
In fact my system is much better for you... 😉

and about "the best player should win":
who is the bast player? the one who plays better in the turnament or the one who played best before the turnament (rating)?
... no, I know the rating is a very good orientation, but we make the turney to see that ratings aren't everything. (Or do you offer a draw immetiatey to a player 2 pts rated higher then you after his first move?)

It would be nice to have many turneys running here and every turnament is different from another one: so I can choose the "lowclass-knockout" and you take the... (no idea of chess turnaments??? - there are swiss-systems, aren't there? 😕)

have a nice day!
th

I'd offer draws to Capa 😀

Just joined here at RHP.

A newbie question. How do I join a tournament...?


Hwyl
Gwynfor

Originally posted by ICTWizz
Just joined here at RHP.

A newbie question. How do I join a tournament...?


Hwyl
Gwynfor

Check the tournament link icon on the upper half of the page. They're listed there. New ones appear at the top of the page, and you just click on the tournament name for details and to join up.

regards, Marc

why isn't there a link to this thread in the turnament section as it it for other turnaments?
th