16 Aug 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIf you are an atheist who doesn't anticipate a final judgement, why do you perceive yourself as committing acts that are supposedly transgressions of 'God's will'?
All humans sin, myself included. My drive each day though is to be righteous (or more applicably to be a good person as possible) not to be actively sinful. - And as an atheist I of course don't anticipate a final judgement.
16 Aug 16
Originally posted by KellyJayMy position never changes. You lack understanding. I explained to you already that there are different kinds of people who will face judgment. Some with be Christians and some will not be Christians. The Bible identifies these separate people and identifies separate treatment of these different types when Jesus will judge them.
I've been reading you for a long time your stances change as I pointed out to you. You say
they must believe in Jesus and follow His commands, then say it doesn't matter if they even
believe in Him let a lone follow Him.
Some will enter Gods Kingdom through faith alone, some by works alone. You seem to lack the ability and compassion to deal with these matters.
There are even different kinds of Christians .. some will be saints who will rule with Christ and some will be in Gods Kingdom but will not rule with Christ.
There are many routes to the Kingdom of God and ALL without exception, are through Jesus Christ. Even an athesit can enter Gods Kingdom through Jesus. You lack the ability to understand all these things because your brain has one track and you suffer from straitjacketed thinking.
Thankfully God / Jesus are not so retarded.
16 Aug 16
Originally posted by Rajk999There will be no "different kinds of people who will face judgment" we all face judgment.
My position never changes. You lack understanding. I explained to you already that there are different kinds of people who will face judgment. Some with be Christians and some will not be Christians. The Bible identifies these separate people and identifies separate treatment of these different types when Jesus will judge them.
Some will enter Gods Kingdo ...[text shortened]... rack and you suffer from straitjacketed thinking.
Thankfully God / Jesus are not so retarded.
Where do you get such things?
Labels will not matter on the Day of Judgment there will only been Jesus' sheep and
everyone else. NO ONE IS GOING TO ENTER ON WORKS ALONE! Scripture is
very clear it isn't by works we are saved! There will not be a getting in by human effort
alone!
I lack the understanding about this circus you are describing because it is not scriptural.
You say you must obey Christ, or simply overlook Him is simply moronic. Did Jesus say
He was the Way, the Truth, the Life, and no one comes to the Father by by Him, unless
you don't have anything to do with Him and do some good works? You can only interject
such a statement by making some scripture mean things they do not while ignoring others.
It is easy to have a one track mind if what you’re going on about is backed up by scripture
and not some made up theory that cannot be spelled out without contradicting itself.
16 Aug 16
2 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayIn the longest lecture to the biggest crowds of thousands, Jesus said nothing of believing in him or of faith. He spoke of righteousness and good works. {Matt 5,6 7]
There will be no "different kinds of people who will face judgment" we all face judgment.
Where do you get such things?
Labels will not matter on the Day of Judgment there will only been Jesus' sheep and
everyone else. NO ONE IS GOING TO ENTER ON WORKS ALONE! Scripture is
very clear it isn't by works we are saved! There will not be a getting in by h ...[text shortened]... scripture
and not some made up theory that cannot be spelled out without contradicting itself.
In the two illustrative stories of good and bad people, the Good Samaritan and the Rich Man and Lazarus, Jesus spoke nothing of faith but how the Good Samaritan did good works and the Rich Man did evil works by ignoring the poor and needy, the end of which is torment.
In most of the parables of Jesus, the stories centered about righteousness and good works. Those who live evil lives will be destroyed
In the day of judgment Jesus was crystal clear and repetitive about who will enter the Kingdom of God and who will be cast into the lake of fire ... again the criteria for entry was righteousness and good works, the criteria for eternal death is ignoring good works.
You clearly dont believe in Jesus.
Many athesits believe in Jesus more than you.
You believe in the teachings of some church.
You believe in the NAME of Jesus, certainly NOT HIS TEACHINGS.
That is lip service and mouth worship
I hope you have your fireproof suit handy ... 😀
16 Aug 16
Originally posted by KellyJayI understand that you believe that no one is going to be saved by "works alone" but are "works", nevertheless, required and necessary, or are they optional?
Labels will not matter on the Day of Judgment there will only been Jesus' sheep and everyone else. NO ONE IS GOING TO ENTER ON WORKS ALONE! Scripture is very clear it isn't by works we are saved! There will not be a getting in by human effort alone!
16 Aug 16
Originally posted by KellyJayCan someone be obeying Christ's commands and following His "Way" etc. without realizing it or without acknowledging it?
You say you must obey Christ, or simply overlook Him is simply moronic. Did Jesus say He was the Way, the Truth, the Life, and no one comes to the Father by by Him, unless you don't have anything to do with Him and do some good works?
16 Aug 16
Originally posted by Rajk999Whether KellyJay likes it or not, and regardless of whatever pettiness or vanity might be causing him to behave the way he does, the fact that he is stonewalling on this point blank heart-of-the-matter question is part and parcel of his "ministry" here on this forum.
You must have asked that a dozen times, without getting a response ?🙂
16 Aug 16
FMF: I understand that you believe that no one is going to be saved by "works alone" but are "works", nevertheless, required and necessary, or are they optional?Until KellyJay answers it, the ideology he espouses doesn't really make any sense. Saying, as he does, over and over again, 'If Christians think X then naturally they will do Y' (or words to that effect) simply sidesteps the question of whether Y is required.
Originally posted by Rajk999
You must have asked that a dozen times, without getting a response ?🙂
If Christianity, for KellyJay, merely involves thinking stuff about oneself and telling people things about what you think about stuff (as does sonship's brand of Christianity too), and does not manifest itself in required behaviour and deeds as well, then it strikes me as morally vacuous.
I think KellyJay realizes this and therefore just blanks it out. His prolonged silence was actually triggered by me calling him out for his far-right-style support for the right of Christian parents to engage in child sacrifice without the big-bad-government intervening to protect the children.
However, I don't think he's too keen to get over himself, brush himself down, and reenter the debate when this glaringly unanswered question about "works" is casting a shadow on the very moral coherence of his philosophy.
17 Aug 16
Originally posted by Rajk999You should take every scripture that deals with sin and judgment not just your pet few and
In the longest lecture to the biggest crowds of thousands, Jesus said nothing of believing in him or of faith. He spoke of righteousness and good works. {Matt 5,6 7]
In the two illustrative stories of good and bad people, the Good Samaritan and the Rich Man and Lazarus, Jesus spoke nothing of faith but how the Good Samaritan did good works and the Rich M ...[text shortened]... GS.
That is lip service and mouth worship
I hope you have your fireproof suit handy ... 😀
ignore the rest. When the scripture says we are not saved by works it means it, now does
that mean that those that are saved don't do them, no. It only means that isn't the reason
they are saved. There are several passages that deal with faith and salvation, does that
mean that Jesus didn't use the word faith in a couple that faith isn't important, no. Your
issue is still that you only look at specific scripture and ignore all of the rest of the Word of
God. Which as Jesus said you were not to do that, we need every Word of God not just
our pet scriptures.
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17 Aug 16
Originally posted by FMFI am only using religious language for the sake of this forum. Off this site I wouldn't speak about living righteously or being a sinner. Any transgressions (bad behaviour) are against my conscience, not God's will. (Just found the Romans verses interesting that linked this conscience with an intuitive link to God's law).
If you are an atheist who doesn't anticipate a final judgement, why do you perceive yourself as committing acts that are supposedly transgressions of 'God's will'?
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17 Aug 16
Originally posted by KellyJay'Finally, brothers and sisters, rejoice! Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.' (2 Cor13:11)
You believe one can sin and still be called righteous by God for the purpose of entering
into His Kingdom, why? What is the line between a sinner who is not righteous and one
who is in your opinion? I'm really curious as to your answer to my last question.
God doesn't expect you to be perfect. God expects you to 'strive' for perfection. So yes, you can sin and still be righteous.
17 Aug 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeTo equate "sin" and "immorality" seems an odd thing for an atheist to do, especially here on this forum.
I am only using religious language for the sake of this forum. Off this site I wouldn't speak about living righteously or being a sinner. Any transgressions (bad behaviour) are against my conscience, not God's will. (Just found the Romans verses interesting that linked this conscience with an intuitive link to God's law).