Revelation 17,18

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Then you are slobbbering. The Bible makes it clear that its a global entity and is not restricted to a particular culture, nationality or anything else for that matter.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Well, if you do believe that, then it is clear that the RCC has to be a front-runner for the role of the Harlot.

So, Robbie still ignorantly thinks I am somehow giving a free pass to Protestantism. He ignores the logic about the Mother of Harlots.

Why should we not assume that if the Mother is currupted the daughter harlots are not also, in some degree in God's eyes. There is no reason to assume divine displeasure with ONLY the Mother but not with the daughter harlots who are like her.

Now, Robbie hones into the fornication with the kings of the earth like a laser and says essentially - "Nothing else can be ascertained."

He should just speak for himself if that is all he can ascertain. In coming posts I will examine why the cup, the contents, the drunkeness caused by the drinking of it, all can be spiritually discerned to maladies that plague Christiandom's abnormal deviation from the normal church life Christ seeks to build.

In the seven letters to the seven churches in the beginning of Revelation God has outlined for us TYPICAL maladies which will trouble the church. Before we get to chapter 17, we already see in chapters 2 and 3 things which the saints in the churches are called to "overcome" .

Are any of these things corresponding to the view that the golden cup of the Harlot is of God outwardly, yet contains corruption inwardly ?

Yes. Many of the problems which the saints are called to overcome in Revelation 2 and 3 are characteristics of both the Roman Catholic Church AND of the Christendom of denominations which came out of the Reformation.

These will be briefly touched below.

The church in Ephesus is rebuked because she has left her first love.

" But I have one thing against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore where you have fallen from and repent and do the first works, ..." (Rev. 2:3)

[b] "Remember therefore where you have fallen from and repent and do the first works; but if not, I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place, unless you repent." (v.5)

"Now there were in Antioch, in the local church [or the church that was there] prophets and teachers; ... And as they were MINISTERING TO THE LORD and fasting, the Holy Spirit said,

Set apart for Me [the Holy Spirit] now Barnabus and Saul for the work to which I have called them." (13:1,2)

Originally posted by sonship
So, Robbie still ignorantly thinks I am somehow giving a free pass to Protestantism. He ignores the logic about the [b] Mother of Harlots.

Why should we not assume that if the Mother is currupted the daughter harlots are not also, in some degree in God's eyes. There is no reason to assume divine displeasure with ONLY the Mother but not with the daugh ...[text shortened]... that plague Christiandom's abnormal deviation from the normal church life Christ seeks to build.[/b]

Originally posted by sonship
[b] yes so it then becomes apparent that the harlot is a global entity and not restricted to a particular culture, people, language or religion. What about this phrase?
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That is right. Catholic means public. The Prostitute is a world wide "public" religious or ...[text shortened]... e] " ... with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication ..." (2a) [/quote][/b]

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand...

Originally posted by sonship
Fornication is distinct here from adultery. Adultery is the sin of unfaithfulness of a spouse. Fornication is the sin of a harlot or prostitute. It is more serious than adultery.

The symbolism means the Roman Catholic Church has sinful relationships with the earth's kings which result in her profit. This is being compared to to the harlot committing sin ...[text shortened]... s and spiritual befuddlement because of the RCC's spiritual fornication and heretical doctrines.

And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The symbolism means the Roman Catholic Church has sinful relationships with the earth's kings which result in her profit - jaywill

This is clearly erroneous. If we are talking about a global entity that is religious in nature then it cannot refer to a specific denomination of Christianity but must refer to a conglomerate of religions.

Originally posted by RJHinds

In the Middle East, "mother of..." is an idiom meaning "the embodiment of..." The "Mother of harlots" would be recognized by any Middle Eastern person as meaning the embodiment of all whoredom.

Iraqi statements on the Persian Gulf war, as reported in the press, have been filled with references to "the mother of battles." The commander of the Ira ...[text shortened]... RY. BABYLON THE GREAT, THE EMBODIMENT OF ALL HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Revelation 17:1-7 NASB
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality.” And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly. And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

Revelation 17:12-15
The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.

These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

And he *said to me, “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues... The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

Revelation 17:6 NASB
And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.

In the Middle East, "mother of..." is an idiom meaning "the embodiment of..." The "Mother of harlots" would be recognized by any Middle Eastern person as meaning the embodiment of all whoredom.

Iraqi statements on the Persian Gulf war, as reported in the press, have been filled with references to "the mother of battles." The commander of the Iraqi Republican Guard is quoted as saying that his troops "will repel the heathen alliance led by America in the mother of battles."

The translation is based on a misunderstanding of the use of the Arabic word "umm" (mother). Besides its literal meaning, "umm" -- when followed by another noun -- is often equivalent to English words like "chief," "main" or "principal" (as in "mother lode" ).

Thus, "umm al-watan" (mother of the homeland) means "metropolis," "ummahat al-hawadith" (mothers of events) means "major events," and "ummahat as-suhuf" (mothers of newspapers) means "leading newspapers." The Arabic phrase literally meaning "mother of battles" (umm al-ma'arik) can best be translated "the great battle," "the mighty battle," perhaps "the decisive battle."

So "mother of harlots" could best be translated "the great harlot" or "the mighty harlot" or "the harlot to end all harlots" and does not mean that it has some daughters.

This also includes the "mother of" the abominations of the earth. So this is actually referring to the great evils of the earth. This could be translated:
MYSTERY. BABYLON THE GREAT, THE EMBODIMENT OF ALL HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am interested in what the Bible says and what can be deduced from scripture. Your Catholic church theory is erroneous. I have told you why its erroneous. It is enough for me. You can either accept the fact or reject it.

Okay, I pointed this out to you before that Revelation 17-18 mentions nothing about daughters, yet you keep talking about daughters.
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I saw the comment. I considered it.

The beheading of Christians in any age is a crime against God and humanity which Jesus will avenge. The martyrdom of the followers of Jesus is the Devil's opposition against Christ.

I am not making light of their deaths in any country including the killing of Christians in a US congregation in South Carolina, as a light thing.

I'll add a few comments below. But back and forth for 30 or 40 posts like we did on Genesis 1:1,2 I will not be doing. My not engaging your comments perpetually will likely appear to you as my ignoring you.

I'll respond to a couple of things below.

Now if jaywill can refrain from taking the matter personally and suzianne can be reeled in from her orbit around the moon another question which I expect a clear and concise answer.

In what way is the relationship between the Kings of the Earth (the political powers of the system) and the Harlot (this global spiritual entity) illicit?

Originally posted by RJHinds

It should also be obvious from what is happening in our very day that it is radical Islam that is at war with the Lamb and His followers. They are also beheading the saints as is mentioned in Revelation:

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand...

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and of those who had not worshipped the beast nor his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." (Rev. 20:4)

Originally posted by RJHinds

My own comments:

It says the kings and those that dwell on the earth are drunk with the wine of acts of her immorality. We see from the following that the WINE is the BLOOD of the saints. This is the same imagery Christ used when he said, 'THIS WINE IS MY BLOOD."

Revelation 17:6 NASB
And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.

This blood is the blood from the saints slain by the sword.

" But I say to you - the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they say - I put no other burden upon you.

Nevertheless what you have hold fast until I come." (Rev. 2:24,25)