@spruce112358 said
Fine.

But then it is time for us to re-evaluate who we want to win.

Well sure. . Im rooting for Israel.
So is USA and most of Europe.
Go Israel !!
🙂

@spruce112358 said
Palestinians have never voted for 'death to Jews.' The Palestinian people have never held a referendum on whether to accept or reject any of Hamas' Charters. The Hamas Charter no more represents the Palestinian people than a plank from the Republican platform or white paper from a think tank represents the United States.

The latest Hamas Charter of 2017, which has als ...[text shortened]... ouncing violence brings you nothing, and proposing peace brings you nothing.

What's left but war?

I have been through all that before on this forum. Gaza Palestinians voted in Hamas with the full knowledge of what Hamas 1988 Charter contained. I posted up that here already with all the details of how the Quran supports their cause of killing Jews. Gaza is a terroirst training camp. They indoctrine kids as young a 3 to learn to hate Jews.

There is no excuse. As you say let the war continue.

@divegeester said
Interesting how PettyTalk is avoiding your thread.

Yep. He is probably gathering information from the other elders. They have a structure similar to the JWs. The elders are like God, and get their own planet, galaxy or universe to rule over. This is why he told me he is going to torture / punish me in hell [whatever that meant]. He is a sick deluded brainwashed Mormon who thinks he is God. You can deduce that from his arrogant posts. The idiot thinks he is in charge of planet Earth.

@spruce112358 said
Palestinians have to be able to vote in their own country. I don't care if that's Israel or a Palestinian state.

Palestinians (including refugees) can be fully incorporated in Israel and send representatives to the Knesset (One State).

Or the 1967 borders can be restored, the Israeli WB settlers returned, let the Palestinian refugees come home, the blockade can b ...[text shortened]... o be able to vote for the representatives that control their lives - which they cannot presently do.

You are saying Palestinians want 2-states. Surveys done very recently after Oct 7th attack on Israel, revealed that the people of Gaza believe the following:
- Hamas will win this war
- Palestinians will gain control over all of Palestine
- There is going to be no 2-state solution.

Palestininians can vote in Israel as long as they are resident there.

@spruce112358 said
The answer to Islamic extremism is to engage and support Islamic NON-extremism.

I have met and worked with many Muslims - always absolutely delightful people. I've had spirited discussions about Islam and its tenets in Istanbul, Beirut, Amman, Indonesia - all over. I have always found Muslims to be fun to talk with - polite, with a wonderful sense of humor and irony. ...[text shortened]... hem - and may well turn some good Muslims bad. That's a very counter-productive and stupid approach.

All this is irrelevant and childish. There are nice serial killes, rapists, murderers and pedophiles. They are just ordinary people, and they can be very nice. Their true colours shine through sooner or later. Just like Islamic extremists.

@spruce112358 said

But Palestinians have to be able to vote for the representatives that control their lives - which they cannot presently do.

Thats their fault. They wanted "Death to Jews".
They voted in Hamas which spoke their language.
They are happy.

You think they are not happy.
You are wrong.

@spruce112358 said
The way to test the truth of this statement is to look at the countries that were never colonized. And then realize that NONE of these countries WISH that had been colonized:

Thailand
China
Japan
Korea
Nepal
Afghanistan
Iran
Turkey
Ethiopia
Saudi Arabia

Some of these countries have been invaded (multiple times!), some have done better, some worse. But none ...[text shortened]... a created weakness.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-never-colonized

Post colonialism period started around 1950 ish. These were all nations wallowing in poverty. Japan and China came out of it. Some like Ethiopia are at the bottom of the barrel.

I can tell you in my area the places that still are under the British or US are Puerto Rico, Cayman Islands, US Virgin Islands. All are faring better than the rest of the Caribbean.

@spruce112358 said
You can stop with this BS right here. EVERY colonial power claims this and it is ALWAYS wrong.

Palestinians have ALWAYS owned the land of Palestine - no matter what foreign power was occupying them at the time - Ottomans, British, whomever.

700,000 Palestinians were moved OUT of their homes where they had lived for generations to make way for European Jews who want ...[text shortened]... nd should never have happened. But it did happen.

So now - what's next? Fixing it is what's next.

You do not understand how things work.
How does a specific group own the land.
Were they the governing authority? NO
Were they sole owners of land? NO

The truth is that there were many owners of land in Palestine. There were Jews, Arabs, Spanish and other Europeans and even Chinese. Arabs own the largest share but they did not and never did run the country.

There is nothing to fix. It is a single state region with Israel in charge.

@spruce112358 said
You have noticed that few of the countries that have 'run amok' over the last hundred years having been Islamic, right? I'm thinking of Germany, Japan, and Russia. I'm defining 'running amok' as 'major invasion of a sovereign country', not minor border disputes, and not counter-invasions (e.g. Allied opposition to fascism). I'm not counting supplying aid to one side in a ...[text shortened]... l group of Islamic states' ready to 'run amok over the world?' Seems like that doesn't really exist.

Just a few points :
- Colonialism was good thing. It helped poor countries to rise up out of underdevelopment. The colonial powers built infrastructure, assisted with government and provided technical expertise in all sectors. Its good. Many countries after breaking free of the colonists have gone into the gutter, is now rife will corruption, unproductive, GDP is falling and the country reverts into poverty.
- Palestinians never owned the land of Palestine. It was a British territory... so was not 'their' land.
- Islamic countries breed extremists and these groups form themselves into terror cells. The more famous ones are Boko Haram, Taliban, Hamas, Hexbollah, Houthi and several others. These groups have killed by the millions and displaced tens of millions of people. The small ones are growing in European countries and they are causing havoc. Maybe you need to research this. The fact that some of these have Israel to worry about keeps them at bay. They are dangerous and people who ignore these extremists will live to regret it.

@suzianne said
His attacks on me typically refer to me in the third person. This indicates the tenor and purpose of his post, and classically exposes his holier-than-thou rhetoric.

Another frustrated lesbian on the loose. Nobody can discuss anything in peace.

@divegeester said
I suspect that is true of all religious groups; should we not discuss the beliefs of any religious groups?

I tell you that woman missing dozens of screws with that kind of comment. We cannot discuss anything and she gets offended.

@congruent said
Could Netanyahu have averted this?

Body of Israeli hostage recovered from Gaza after 'months of torture'

Elad Katzir was taken from his kibbutz on 7 October and was twice seen in hostage videos. After his body was found, his sister said he had been abandoned and called the Israeli government "cowardly".

Yes, he could have wiped out Gaza sometime prior to Oct 7th.

@divegeester said
I worked with a Mormon many years ago; she believed she was going to eventually get her own planet and that her God lived on a planet called Kobo, or something like that.

Sounds similar to stuff I have read about peoples experiences with Mormons. Also it is in line with PettyTalk's idea of him having authority over people in hell, and his ability to torment others in hell. They are big on this hell business. When he said King David was in hell for his sins, that was the trigger in my mind that this was a Mormon.

Got this comment off Quora ... again people who have been Mormons:

Mormons do not believe they get their own planet. That’s small potatoes. Mormons believe they become Gods and create galaxies and universes as a God. They populate these galaxies with the spirit children they created with the massive amounts of celestial sex the worthy males have with their polygamous harem of wives. Anyone who says this isn’t true – never studied church history or is in denial.

Mormons lean heavily on plastic surgery because their teachings are all surface level about outside appearances, and prosperity = worthiness. There is pressure to look ideal because if your appearance is ideal – you must be pretty special and worthy. Always put your best foot forward. Never complain and make it appear that you are favored by God. We also have a lot of suicides in UT because of this attitude.

@mchill said
My Lutheran bible study classes seem pretty orthodox and boring compared to these two.

What do you find interesting? Personally their view of paradise is different, and the part about men having many wives in heaven / paradise seems weird and contrary to the bible.

@suzianne said
So what exactly is your purpose with this 'exposé'?

I thought is was obvious that we get to discuss another sect, and expand our knowledge. PettyTalk is here to assist.