@spruce112358 said
The UNSCOP 1947 partition plan was stupid. Of course it was rejected.

"...plan’s detractors considered the proposed plan to be pro-Zionist, with 56% of the land allocated to the Jewish state although the Palestinian Arab population numbered twice the Jewish population. The plan was celebrated by most Jews in Palestine and reluctantly accepted by the Jewish Agen ...[text shortened]... .

Basically none of what you are posting about the Arab-Israeli conflict is unbiased or accurate.

You landownership information is not factual at all.

A full table of respective land ownership at the time of the proposed UNSCOP partition in 1948 is given below (research source links follow at the end):
​
7.4% Jewish ownership (direct or through Jewish land funds).
11.6% Arab-Palestinian owner-residents.
6.9% Foreign owners, mostly Arab or prior Ottoman owners.
44.1% State-owned Public land.
26.5% State-owned/feudal-system leased land (Miri)
3.5% Religious trusts (Islamic Waqf, Greek Orthodox Church)

https://booksand-ebooks.com/political-commentary/israel-palestine-land-division

Also the Arab population did not own Palestine as you keep implying. They never governed Palestine. They just lived there under the governance of several Empires.

The land division was fair since much of the 56 % given to Israel was useless desert which nobody wanted. The fact that the Jews took the desert and made it bloom is to their credit. At that time nobody wanted it.

@spruce112358 said
I think that IS the way to think about this problem.

Colonizing and migrating like this, setting up shop and "pushing" the previous folks out of the way, is an old practice that (thankfully) the world no longer wants to tolerate.

What was accepted before (never "right", but accepted), is no longer accepted.

We ain't like this no more. And THIS attempt needs to be the last time humanity ever does this.

Colonization died back in the 20s. It was put to rest by the 1960s when the last of the British colonies got independence. Any country now that does not secede, means that they see some tangible benefit to being part of the British [or some other] Empire.

So what does this have to do with Israel and Gaza? The Arabs back in 1947 were offered a 2-state solution and they refused. They have refused all peace deals since. They have instead dug in their heels and resorted to acts of terrorism like bombing busses of Jewish school children, crowded stores, they murdered Olympic athletes in Munich, hijacked a plane load of Jews to Entebbe. There is a long list of acts of terrorism over the decades since 1948.

Why have they not set up their own government?

@spruce112358 said
LOL. Yes. He who has ears, let him hear. 🙂

I got ears... thanks for letting me know.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24 KJV)

@spruce112358 said
Luke 22:70

Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am. (Luke 22:70 KJV)

So you are the Son of God. OK so what? Is that justification for the lies and misinformation you posted?

@spruce112358 said
On Nov 9th, 1917, Britain gave European Zionists permission to set up a colony in Palestine. Naturally, none of the people living in Palestine at the time were asked if they wanted to be colonized.

Over the next 31 years, migrants arriving mostly from Poland and Russia but also the rest of Europe, America and elsewhere caused tensions to rise in Palestine. Finally, in ...[text shortened]... see what happens next.

The end of the last gasp of colonialism in human history is long overdue.

This appears to be an article by Bruce Basson, on Nov 11, 2023 in Post News. Are you that person, or did you just copy and paste the mans work?

Anyway, whether you like it or not, prior to the League of Nations being set up in 1920 or thereabouts, land and countries were taken by conquest / war. It was a common practice. The British, French, Dutch etc all sailed around the world taking over areas that were easy targets. The British took Palestine from the Ottoman Empire. So rightfully by the laws existing at that time, it belonged to them. In those days anyone could have bought property in Palestine. The Jews bought large chunks of land either from the British or from prior land owners.

Your failiure is that you are trying to apply certain aspects of international law in force now to 100 years ago. That is nonsense.

The other piece of nonsense is this:
...Finally, in 1948 a full-scale ethnic cleansing was carried out in which over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were moved out of Jewish sectors (i.e. the Nakba).

The truth is in 1948 through a UN approved partition plan, the British divided their land into two portions. The Jews accepted it, whiile the Arabs said no partition is possible. The war started. It was a war, in which the Arabs lost. They fled because of the war THEY STARTED. To call it ethnic cleansing is just a plain lie.

The rest of it mostly sensational nonsensical drama. The Palestinians do not want a two state solution. They want full control of all the land of Palestine. Sadly for them that will never happen.

Here is another comment from Reddit

Mormons do not believe they get their own planet. That’s small potatoes. Mormons believe they become Gods and create galaxies and universes as a God. They populate these galaxies with the spirit children they created with the massive amounts of celestial sex the worthy males have with their polygamous harem of wives. Anyone who says this isn’t true – never studied church history or is in denial.

Mormons lean heavily on plastic surgery because their teachings are all surface level about outside appearances, and prosperity = worthiness. There is pressure to look ideal because if your appearance is ideal – you must be pretty special and worthy. Always put your best foot forward. Never complain and make it appear that you are favored by God. We also have a lot of suicides in UT because of this attitude.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/v2su8q/is_it_true_mormons_believe_they_get_a_planet_when/

@congruent said
Was Israel a UK colony?
The land that eventually became modern Israel was not part of a British colony, though it was part of a British mandate. It was temporarily under the administration of and was part of the British Empire and it was under British civilian administration.

Israeli colonies
Israeli settlements, also called Israeli colonies, are the civi ...[text shortened]... ity or ethnicity, and were first established after Israel's victory in the Six-Day War of June 1967.

Playing with words again. The fact of the matter is that there was peace on the table in 1947, through a UN approved partition plan. The Arabs refused saying there will be no Jewish state in Palestine. They were hoping to get the surrounding Arab states to help them eradicate the newly formed Israel. They failed. They tried many times after and they failed many times. They do not want peace. So I dont know why the world is worrying about making peace. Peace is not an option.

@sleepyguy said
I wonder how many have been born in Gaza since that election. Can they leave?

But no. No excuses. Let the war continue (with American munitions raining down on their heads).

Unfortunately, that is what war is about. Hamas started this war in the most horrific fashion, and they can end it by surrendering, returning the hostages, and stop firing rockets into Israel. They have not. They dont care. Neither do I to be honest.

About 25,000 people die every day from starvation mostly is Islamic states in North Africa. I feel more pity for these people.

@spruce112358 said
Fine.

But then it is time for us to re-evaluate who we want to win.

Well sure. . Im rooting for Israel.
So is USA and most of Europe.
Go Israel !!
🙂

@spruce112358 said
Palestinians have never voted for 'death to Jews.' The Palestinian people have never held a referendum on whether to accept or reject any of Hamas' Charters. The Hamas Charter no more represents the Palestinian people than a plank from the Republican platform or white paper from a think tank represents the United States.

The latest Hamas Charter of 2017, which has als ...[text shortened]... ouncing violence brings you nothing, and proposing peace brings you nothing.

What's left but war?

I have been through all that before on this forum. Gaza Palestinians voted in Hamas with the full knowledge of what Hamas 1988 Charter contained. I posted up that here already with all the details of how the Quran supports their cause of killing Jews. Gaza is a terroirst training camp. They indoctrine kids as young a 3 to learn to hate Jews.

There is no excuse. As you say let the war continue.

@divegeester said
Interesting how PettyTalk is avoiding your thread.

Yep. He is probably gathering information from the other elders. They have a structure similar to the JWs. The elders are like God, and get their own planet, galaxy or universe to rule over. This is why he told me he is going to torture / punish me in hell [whatever that meant]. He is a sick deluded brainwashed Mormon who thinks he is God. You can deduce that from his arrogant posts. The idiot thinks he is in charge of planet Earth.

@spruce112358 said
Palestinians have to be able to vote in their own country. I don't care if that's Israel or a Palestinian state.

Palestinians (including refugees) can be fully incorporated in Israel and send representatives to the Knesset (One State).

Or the 1967 borders can be restored, the Israeli WB settlers returned, let the Palestinian refugees come home, the blockade can b ...[text shortened]... o be able to vote for the representatives that control their lives - which they cannot presently do.

You are saying Palestinians want 2-states. Surveys done very recently after Oct 7th attack on Israel, revealed that the people of Gaza believe the following:
- Hamas will win this war
- Palestinians will gain control over all of Palestine
- There is going to be no 2-state solution.

Palestininians can vote in Israel as long as they are resident there.

@spruce112358 said
The answer to Islamic extremism is to engage and support Islamic NON-extremism.

I have met and worked with many Muslims - always absolutely delightful people. I've had spirited discussions about Islam and its tenets in Istanbul, Beirut, Amman, Indonesia - all over. I have always found Muslims to be fun to talk with - polite, with a wonderful sense of humor and irony. ...[text shortened]... hem - and may well turn some good Muslims bad. That's a very counter-productive and stupid approach.

All this is irrelevant and childish. There are nice serial killes, rapists, murderers and pedophiles. They are just ordinary people, and they can be very nice. Their true colours shine through sooner or later. Just like Islamic extremists.

@spruce112358 said

But Palestinians have to be able to vote for the representatives that control their lives - which they cannot presently do.

Thats their fault. They wanted "Death to Jews".
They voted in Hamas which spoke their language.
They are happy.

You think they are not happy.
You are wrong.

@spruce112358 said
The way to test the truth of this statement is to look at the countries that were never colonized. And then realize that NONE of these countries WISH that had been colonized:

Thailand
China
Japan
Korea
Nepal
Afghanistan
Iran
Turkey
Ethiopia
Saudi Arabia

Some of these countries have been invaded (multiple times!), some have done better, some worse. But none ...[text shortened]... a created weakness.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-never-colonized

Post colonialism period started around 1950 ish. These were all nations wallowing in poverty. Japan and China came out of it. Some like Ethiopia are at the bottom of the barrel.

I can tell you in my area the places that still are under the British or US are Puerto Rico, Cayman Islands, US Virgin Islands. All are faring better than the rest of the Caribbean.