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  1. SubscriberAshiitaka
    Nezahualcóyōtɬ
    RSA
    Joined
    20 Oct '16
    Moves
    11362
    02 Jul '20 20:132 edits
    @no1marauder said
    I'd prefer non-subscribers have less influence over Debates not more. Perhaps they should be limited to a certain number of posts and/or participation in a limited number of threads per week/month.

    Many of the most toxic and disruptive posters in Debates have no "skinny" in the game and some periodically start new usernames. It would be nice if something was done to control these problems.
    I disagree with this, and I have said as much in private forums.

    I don't think that whether someone is a subscriber should influence the application of any new rules for moderation. This implies that subscribing would allow a poster to get away with something that a non-sub would not when they really should not be connected. It would be analogous to the wealthy being treated differently by the law by being punished less harshly for the same crime.

    Making treatment different for subscribers on something unrelated to chess like the debates forum makes the site look bad by making it seem as though they only care about profit. That could cause un-subs on principle and deter people from subbing. I honestly don't believe that people's posting behaviour would change by becoming a subscriber or by unsubscribing.

    I have always subscribed. It's not that I particularly need or want the extra features, but I like to support a site that I get enjoyment from. However, I don't believe the solution to solving the toxicity in the debates forum should be tied to money. There are plenty of good writers who are non-subs, and plenty of bad ones who are. Applying restrictions to all non-subs for the sake of curbing a few bad eggs (I'm sure you can imagine whom I am thinking of) wouldn't be very nice.
  2. Joined
    08 Jun '20
    Moves
    1953
    02 Jul '20 20:151 edit
    @Soothfast

    I can think of 3 guys who say things that are that bad to warrant this shutdown.
    I went to their profiles and none have been banned so hopefully it's just an upgrade and not a lengthy shutdown.
    I like those guys to be honest.
    I hate some but I still like the ones I hate.
    People are too sensitive.

    Isn't ad revenue based on people who actually click on the ads?
  3. Standard memberSoothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    Planet Rain
    Joined
    04 Mar '04
    Moves
    2477
    02 Jul '20 20:17
    @uglytoproll said
    @Soothfast

    I can think of 3 guys who say things that are that bad to warrant this shutdown.
    I went to their profiles and none have been banned so hopefully it's just an upgrade and not a lengthy shutdown.
    I like those guys to be honest.
    I hate some but I still like the ones I hate.
    People are too sensitive.

    Isn't ad revenue based on people who actually click on the ads?
    Did you count yourself?
  4. Joined
    08 Jun '20
    Moves
    1953
    02 Jul '20 20:40
    @soothfast said
    Did you count yourself?
    No I state actual facts that most are scared to admit lest they appear racist.

    My comments didn't cause this.
    It was most likely the comments involving sexual references or any type of violence.
  5. Joined
    08 Jun '20
    Moves
    1953
    02 Jul '20 20:421 edit
    @Soothfast

    I pay way too much to even be considered a problem.
    Pick any member here and I have paid 10 times more cash to the site.
    I get a pass.
    Multi-Subscriber priviledge.
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    The Moral Godfather
    London
    Joined
    14 Mar '15
    Moves
    23104
    02 Jul '20 20:49
    @uglytoproll said
    @Soothfast

    I pay way too much to even be considered a problem.
    Pick any member here and I have paid 10 times more cash to the site.
    I get a pass.
    Multi-Subscriber priviledge.
    You often boast about your multiple subscriptions but don't you just subscribe 1 month at a time, and then jump accounts?
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    At the Bar
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    41711
    02 Jul '20 20:55
    @ashiitaka said
    I disagree with this, and I have said as much in private forums.

    I don't think that whether someone is a subscriber should influence the application of any new rules for moderation. This implies that subscribing would allow a poster to get away with something that a non-sub would not when they really should not be connected. It would be analogous to the wealthy being tr ...[text shortened]... ke of curbing a few bad eggs (I'm sure you can imagine whom I am thinking of) wouldn't be very nice.
    There's already all kinds of restrictions on non-subs; they can only play a limited number of games, they can't play in tournaments, they can't join clans and on and on. I see no reason why their posting privileges shouldn't be limited as well.

    No one suggested different penalties for posting violations, so that is a red herring.
  8. Joined
    08 Jun '20
    Moves
    1953
    02 Jul '20 20:561 edit
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    You often boast about your multiple subscriptions but don't you just subscribe 1 month at a time, and then jump accounts?
    The one month feature is new and for the google app.
    I just found out about it.
    No I'm a 50/50 type.
    Sometimes a 3 month sub and sometimes a year sub.
    I usually last a month maybe two.
    It adds up.
    One week I bought 3 one year memberships.
    3 bans in a week!...must be a record or something.
    They kept the cash...
    They must have reached a point where they decided to stop banning and watch the cash roll in.
    It's small relatively speaking but I am positive I paid for Russ' Rolex watch.
  9. SubscriberAshiitaka
    Nezahualcóyōtɬ
    RSA
    Joined
    20 Oct '16
    Moves
    11362
    02 Jul '20 21:172 edits
    @no1marauder said
    There's already all kinds of restrictions on non-subs; they can only play a limited number of games, they can't play in tournaments, they can't join clans and on and on. I see no reason why their posting privileges shouldn't be limited as well.

    No one suggested different penalties for posting violations, so that is a red herring.
    1. You wrote that non-subs should be limited to a certain number of posts per week. Imagine you are having a debate with, say, KN. Mid-discussion, KN runs out of weekly posts. Oops! The discussion is over - better come back next week (or month!), by which time the thread is gone. Would you enjoy that?

    2. The chess privileges don't affect the community that is the debates forum. The debates forum only survives because there is a critical mass of good posters who keep it worthwhile to read. Why should posters like KazetNagorra, DeepThought, HandyAndy, sh76, Soothfast or Teinosuke be punished because they happen to share an unrelated characteristic (being a non-sub) with a few bad eggs? That's one way to kill the community.

    3. The requirement for subbing wouldn't stop notorious trolls like the Canadian guy or AverageJoe. It's just not a good filtration mechanism to reduce toxicity - it is much easier to just be more firm on the bans or moderation.
  10. SubscriberWoofwoof
    Wolfe63
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    33661
    02 Jul '20 21:22
    @no1marauder said
    I'd prefer non-subscribers have less influence over Debates not more. Perhaps they should be limited to a certain number of posts and/or participation in a limited number of threads per week/month.

    Many of the most toxic and disruptive posters in Debates have no "skinny" in the game and some periodically start new usernames. It would be nice if something was done to control these problems.
    I agree.
  11. Joined
    08 Jun '20
    Moves
    1953
    02 Jul '20 21:241 edit
    @Ashiitaka

    The Canadian Guy.

    I like that 🤔

    ...Notorious
    I like that too.

    I am imagining my troops marching...
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    At the Bar
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    41711
    02 Jul '20 21:33
    @ashiitaka said
    1. You wrote that non-subs should be limited to a certain number of posts per week. Imagine you are having a debate with, say, KN. Mid-discussion, KN runs out of weekly posts. Oops! The discussion is over - better come back next week (or month!), by which time the thread is gone. Would you enjoy that?

    2. The chess privileges don't affect the community that is the debate ...[text shortened]... ion mechanism to reduce toxicity - it is much easier to just be more firm on the bans or moderation.
    I suggest you reread my post; I already suggested a solution to your hypothetical i.e. that non-subs could have participation in x number of threads.

    There's a "critical mass" of posters making the Forum virtually unreadable and most are non-subs. They have little incentive to moderate their behavior under present circumstances. Extensive forum moderation is simply impracticable on this site which relies on a limited number of volunteer mods.
  13. Joined
    08 Jun '20
    Moves
    1953
    02 Jul '20 21:34
    Elimination of non subs!
    Rise up! Eliminate the non subs!
  14. SubscriberWoofwoof
    Wolfe63
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    33661
    02 Jul '20 21:37
    @ashiitaka said
    I disagree with this, and I have said as much in private forums.

    I don't think that whether someone is a subscriber should influence the application of any new rules for moderation. This implies that subscribing would allow a poster to get away with something that a non-sub would not when they really should not be connected. It would be analogous to the wealthy being tr ...[text shortened]... ke of curbing a few bad eggs (I'm sure you can imagine whom I am thinking of) wouldn't be very nice.
    This is not a "Donations Only" site.
    I do not believe that subscribers should be rendered to mere donor status.

    It's fair and good business for non-subscribers to have access. It's fair that they can play chess for free and may post in the forums. But it's not fair that they become habitually abusive and taunting while others are paying the bills.

    Ultimately, it's about getting a service for which one chooses to pay.

    If I want better song selections on Spotify, I must pay.
    If I want to read the New York Times, I must pay.
    If I want to attend a Futbol match, I must pay.

    In doing so, I am supporting the continued existence of those institutions. Additionally, by doing so, I am not excluding others' their right to choose lesser options.
  15. SubscriberWoofwoof
    Wolfe63
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    33661
    02 Jul '20 21:39
    @uglytoproll said
    Elimination of non subs!
    Rise up! Eliminate the non subs!
    You Sir, have become a parasite. You need to go.
    You and your many aliases have exploited the kindness of this site's ownership for far too long.
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