Clans Forum

Clans Forum

  1. Subscribermoonbus
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    11 Apr '19 06:122 edits
    @mghrn55 said
    But that can be solved by a simple flag.
    Any clan that ends after a challenge has been decided can be flagged as an unrated game.
    If a player decides he/she no longer wishes to continue a game after a challenge has been decided, then they can do so without changing their rating.
    Thus eliminating the accusations of rating manipulation.
    My wheels are turning. 😉
    Sorry, but it’s really not as simple as that. Suppose a challenge between Clan A and Clan B has already been decided in favor of Clan A, with a minority of games still running. If the Clan A players whose games are still running all resign and the games are flagged as not altering the ratings, this is unfair to the Clan B players who might yet have won their games and whose ratings would justly have been increased by those wins.

    Moreover, if some player got into a bad position he knew he could not win, he could just run down his timebank, waiting until the rest of the boards decided the challenge, and THEN resign, knowing his game would get ‘flagged,’ not lose any rating points for a lost game and thereby also depriving his opponent of a justly deserved rating increase.

    In other words, not rating some games is also an abusable form of rating manipulation.

    Realistically, either every game counts and every game is played out even after a challenge is decided, or there has to be trust that no clan is manipulating the system.
  2. Here
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    11 Apr '19 08:031 edit
    @moonbus said
    Sorry, but it’s really not as simple as that. Suppose a challenge between Clan A and Clan B has already been decided in favor of Clan A, with a minority of games still running. If the Clan A players whose games are still running all resign and the games are flagged as not altering the ratings, this is unfair to the Clan B players who might yet have won their games and whose r ...[text shortened]... ter a challenge is decided, or there has to be trust that no clan is manipulating the system.
    the only way to achieve what you want is for the points system to change
    where every game counts
    the current system is useless
  3. SubscriberVery Rusty
    Treat Everyone Equal
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    11 Apr '19 12:27
    @suzianne said
    One controversy at a time, please.

    I think the separation of clan ratings is most pressing, and to confuse the issue with these side issues is counterproductive. We can deal with this issue after that. Both issues deserve our concentration and to split the attention of those who would be voting on these things doesn't help anybody.
    I concur, finally something we can agree on!

    -VR
  4. SubscriberVery Rusty
    Treat Everyone Equal
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    11 Apr '19 12:311 edit
    @suzianne said
    You need to stop telling me what I can and can't do. I am an adult, and you need to stop treating me like a child, or God forbid, your child.

    So you can stop taking it upon yourself to correct me. In fact, you can stop talking to me (or about me) altogether. We'll both be happier.
    Then Suzie Q you should know as an adult that real names are not suppose to be used in the forums as you did. If you need correcting because you are not doing that and following the rules, I will be more than happy to tell you.

    Maybe stop acting like a child and you will not be treated like one. Acknowledge when you do something wrong and just move on. Now lets try and get back to the more important topic of the on going conversation.

    NOTE: I did agree with you on a point you made!

    -VR
  5. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    11 Apr '19 13:08
    The way things now stand a Clan can have their challenge won and the Clan they are playing against will hold off for a full 10 days to delay the winning team from starting another challenge.

    As you know there is a limit to the amount of Challenges you can play against other Clans. If a Clan is going to purposely hold off from playing in a challenge that is already lost, that is another way of cheating and solves nothing.

    Right now I think the objective should be to get the Clan Ratings sperate from the other ratings, which will put a very big curb into what is now going on in the clan challenges.

    Remember the last Vote was lost because too many things were involved in the Vote. I believe we should take on one issue at a time. Lets just see if we can have a seperate Clan rating from all the other ratings first.

    -VR
  6. Subscribercaesar salad
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    11 Apr '19 15:163 edits

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  7. Joined
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    11 Apr '19 15:551 edit
    @moonbus said
    Sorry, but it’s really not as simple as that. Suppose a challenge between Clan A and Clan B has already been decided in favor of Clan A, with a minority of games still running. If the Clan A players whose games are still running all resign and the games are flagged as not altering the ratings, this is unfair to the Clan B players who might yet have won their games and whose r ...[text shortened]... ter a challenge is decided, or there has to be trust that no clan is manipulating the system.
    Point taken. And valid points.
    What’s important is that this is on the table for discussion.
    Clan feature was designed to be an informal feature with some goodwill attached to it.
    When that is abused, it is unfortunate.

    It may be that Russ will come to the conclusion that player bans and clan suspensions are cheaper than development costs.
    (tongue in cheek). 😛
  8. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    11 Apr '19 18:39
    One thing that everyone seems to agree on is that the clan ratings should be seperate from the other ratings. There might be some hope yet!

    -VR
  9. Subscribermoonbus
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    11 Apr '19 18:58
    @caesar-salad removed their quoted post
    Ponderable proposed a solution in his Site Ideas thread (clan challenge moderators, ad hoc adjudication).

    De-coupling clan ratings is a start. We would have to wait and see whether that alone ensures a level playing field. If not, further structural adjustments or ad hoc adjudications might be necessary later.
  10. Subscribermoonbus
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    11 Apr '19 19:06
    @caesar-salad removed their quoted post
    If you were you clanning already in the 2016 season, you would recall that clans did conspire to manipulate the system.

    Also, some of those remaining unrated games might turn out to be draws or won by Clan A.

    Yes, of course, that is why it matters that games are played out. Not necessarily to checkmate, but in any case not resigned en masse regardless of board position once a challenge is decided. This happens; I can show you games and challenges where exactly that did happen, where a player resigned games in superior positions once the challenge was decided; certain clans make no secret of doing this.
  11. Subscribercaesar salad
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    11 Apr '19 19:262 edits

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  12. Subscribercaesar salad
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    12 Apr '19 23:172 edits

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  13. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    13 Apr '19 12:34
    @caesar-salad removed their quoted post
    The next step would be for the Clan Leaders to approach Russ on this proposal, which is probably already in the works.

    Russ does watch what is going on in the Clan Forum, he has known of the situation for some time now.

    Just try and patient!

    -VR
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