@Ghost-of-a-Duke said@Ghost,
Look at the top of page 11 in the thread '2024 Completed.'
I asked the question there.
That was a different Thread Altogether.
Try answering it in this one, people don't like running around to find answers, instead of arguing with me, all you had to do is answer his question in this thread. A very simple thing for you to do.
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidSigh. Bish copied my question in this thread for further discussion.
@Ghost,
That was a different Thread Altogether.
Try answering it in this one, people don't like running around to find answers, instead of arguing with me, all you had to do is answer his question in this thread. A very simple thing for you to do.
-VR
Again, it was my question.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidGhost,
Sigh. Bish copied my question in this thread for further discussion.
Again, it was my question.
Then why not ask it yourself? Or did you think it would get better response coming from Bish?
@Very-Rusty saidI did ask it!!! (In the original thread).
Ghost,
Then why not ask it yourself? Or did you think it would get better response coming from Bish?
Bish merely quoted me here for further discussion.
@venda saidAs written, I disagree as well.
"What if the new rules had a lower fixed limit on how many challenges could be played in a given year?"
I'm not a clan leader but I don't agree with this Bish
You would be punishing active clan leaders for their hard work in mounting challenges.
A clan that play a lot of challenges will always accrue more points than those who only play a few.
That doesn't mean they are the ...[text shortened]... most successful clans.
The only way to measure a clans success is challenges played/challenges won.
You do not want to punish a clan for playing more games, since we all know that playing more games is the way championships are won.
I would amend this quote from "What if the new rules had a lower fixed limit on how many challenges could be played in a given year?" to "What if the new rules had a lower fixed limit on how many challenges could be played against the same clan in a given year?".
We shouldn't limit total challenges, just the sheer number of challenges sent to one clan. This prevents the unfairness of clan leaders who promise to throw challenges to another clan. It also prevents a major clan from using the clans with a higher loss ratio to pad their wins.
Amongst all the drivel I have just trawled through,there was one question which I would like to answer(again!!)
The question was how do we improve the clan feature or something similar,Easy stop referring to the net points clan list as a championship.It's not.It's just a list of the clans that have got the most points by playing a lot of challenges.
Imagine a football or baseball league where some teams play 10 times as many games as others.Would that be called a championship or even a league?
I'll say it again although I know from experience I am wasting my time.
The only fair assessment of a clan's success is games won/games played provided a clan has played a minimum number of games.
This would possibly encourage other clans to take up the challenge.When all that is talked about are a few dominant clans on a flawed list it has the opposite effect
@venda said@Venda,
Amongst all the drivel I have just trawled through,there was one question which I would like to answer(again!!)
The question was how do we improve the clan feature or something similar,Easy stop referring to the net points clan list as a championship.It's not.It's just a list of the clans that have got the most points by playing a lot of challenges.
Imagine a football or base ...[text shortened]... e.When all that is talked about are a few dominant clans on a flawed list it has the opposite effect
The problem I see with Bish's idea is Clan Leaders who like each other would play each other and finish games quickly. It appears to me the system would be more of a popularity contest.
I don't like the idea at all. I am not the majority though, and if the majority want it. Then I can always drop out of the Clans altogether. I may even leave the site. I know some of you are already saying good riddance.
I believe he is trying to set the rules to suit himself, possibly other like minded Clan Leaders. Not for the betterment of the Clan Challenge System we now have.
The Rules have been changes so many times now it is ridiculous as was mentioned by the leader of Metallica.
-VR
@Suzianne saidSuzianne,
As written, I disagree as well.
You do not want to punish a clan for playing more games, since we all know that playing more games is the way championships are won.
I would amend this quote from "What if the new rules had a lower fixed limit on how many challenges could be played in a given year?" to "What if the new rules had a lower fixed limit on how many challenges ...[text shortened]... lan. It also prevents a major clan from using the clans with a higher loss ratio to pad their wins.
I agree with you. It seems like it would end up in to more a popularity contest with Clan leaders who like each other playing each other many times so one of them would win.
One way to do it would be for some way to make it so every clan had to play every other clan a set number of times. We have 3 right now that you can play consecutive challenges with one Clan. Here is the thing as was mentioned by the Leader of Metallica is not every Clan plays every other Clan. Perhaps if that were to happen and everyone had to complete all other CLANS that could be an improvement. Then you are going to have people who aren't going to be in favour of that.
Like the Leader of Metallica also mentioned the Rules have been changed so many times now. It comes to a point where it just gets ridiculous.
Some Clan leaders want a system where they have it fixed before it even starts. If the Clan leader has more other Clan leader friends he will get more games. (Which will in turn mean one of them would win)
If I became a Clan Leader I would get NO GAMES as I am not a popular person and don't go out of my way to try to become one. I just want to play as many games as I can. I just playing the game. I even play in the Greeters games UNRATED. I have 18 going on 19 years experience playing on this site, 16 years plus playing in Clans, two of the top ones on the Site. A lot of hard work is putting into winning a challenges. Many games and much hard work is put into it by some Leaders, not so much by others, but everyone loves the game.
I for one would not play in a Clan System Challenge like Bish would like to see. I am not a Clan Leader or Club Leader. I am a co-captain on another site, and I do help out my Clan leader in Breaking Bad. It appears to me some leaders want to play as few games as possible, and have something to win. The Clan leaders who like each other will play just each other and could possible win it all every year. Wouldn't that be FUN!!!
My little Rant for the day.
-VR
My thought is I believe we can increase the number of players who play in clans and therefore increase the number of clans. In the thread title is "agreed upon by the 2025 Clan Leaders" - I am not trying to change anything myself.
Change is hard - I get that. We have had changes before - I get that too. That doesn't mean we can't make future changes with the goal of growing the clan feature.
So maybe these ideas are not them - it's January - we have 11 more months to think about how to make 2026 even better.
While I am a little confused about our conversations VR - I do know that the answer to my question is not less energy. I know the answer is not people who care about all this even more that I do, leaving. We need you - now more than ever. It's time for some new ideas.
How do we grow the clan feature?
@Very-Rusty saidI'm not advocating any rule changes.Just repeating my moan about the obsession with the net points clan list.
@Venda,
The problem I see with Bish's idea is Clan Leaders who like each other would play each other and finish games quickly. It appears to me the system would be more of a popularity contest.
I don't like the idea at all. I am not the majority though, and if the majority want it. Then I can always drop out of the Clans altogether. I may even leave the site. I know ...[text shortened]... een changes so many times now it is ridiculous as was mentioned by the leader of Metallica.
-VR
I don't expect anything to change and I don't really care where my clans are on it as I never look at it so there we are.I'll try and resist replying to "what can we do to improve the clan system" type messages as the obvious answer is nothing
@venda saidDave,
I'm not advocating any rule changes.Just repeating my moan about the obsession with the net points clan list.
I don't expect anything to change and I don't really care where my clans are on it as I never look at it so there we are.I'll try and resist replying to "what can we do to improve the clan system" type messages as the obvious answer is nothing
Every Clan doesn't even play every other Clan as you are probably quite aware from having been a Clan leader. I believe a very small group of clan leaders come with an idea how they could win something by playing few games and would probably just play each other and no one else.
I think that every clan should have to play every other Clan. Clan Leaders would just have to settle their differences. But hell, that wouldn't work, I know some would just quit if they were forced to play another Clan Leader they didn't like.
I don't want to see this turn into a popularity Contest the Clan leaders most liked play each other. That is the time you would see me drop out of the Clan Challenges I love after all these 18 years, going on 19 now and 16 plus in Clan challenges.
I understand my old friend you are pretty much fed up with the whole thing, we have had some nice chats in P.M., and I respect what you think my old friend.
-VR
@venda saidCould not disagree more my good and great friend Venda. Things will change for the better and we can improve the system.
I'm not advocating any rule changes.Just repeating my moan about the obsession with the net points clan list.
I don't expect anything to change and I don't really care where my clans are on it as I never look at it so there we are.I'll try and resist replying to "what can we do to improve the clan system" type messages as the obvious answer is nothing
Two more ideas - one is mine and one I got in a PM.
What if in 2026 we have 2 clan divisions - big/little competitive/fun - other options - but two divisions. Clan leaders choose what division they are in - with the understanding that they play everyone. Everyone - and as even as possible given all the variables that are hard to control.
What if in addition to our season - like the NBA now and football forever - we also have a cup. The Milk Cup. I have a way to do this I think would work without changing any of the rules. If there is a general interest from the clan leaders I can share that. If not - I will go back to the drawing board. 11 months to go.
@Bish saidBish,
Could not disagree more my good and great friend Venda. Things will change for the better and we can improve the system.
Two more ideas - one is mine and one I got in a PM.
What if in 2026 we have 2 clan divisions - big/little competitive/fun - other options - but two divisions. Clan leaders choose what division they are in - with the understanding that they play everyon ...[text shortened]... om the clan leaders I can share that. If not - I will go back to the drawing board. 11 months to go.
You will never get every Clan Leader to play every Clan Leader as some would quit before they would do that.
Why two division's? So like minded clan Leaders can play each other and win every year? Do you Sincerely think that would be a good idea?
I believe you want a system where you can play as few games as possible and win something. I don't see how this improves the Clan Challenges System in anyway.
It would be great if every Clan played every other Clan, but you have personalities to deal with and some Clan leaders would quit before they played some other Clan leaders. I don't believe in having two groups either. This isn't Football or the NBA, this is a Chess Site. IT IS PLAYED LIKE OPEN TOURNMENTS IN CHESS! Exception not everyone plays everyone else unfortunately.
I suggest going back to the drawing board. Perhaps actually read some of what I said in other posts, which may or may not agree with. Comment on those, I've said what I thought from the heart. I am not a subtle person and can sound very blunt. I never beat around to the bush in what I say.
I certainly don't speak for anyone but myself. People can agree or disagree with me. I know what I can do if I don't like the rules which will benefit certain Clans and Clan Leaders.
EDIT:
I don't care how many thumbs down I get as I am going to speak my mind whether you or who ever is thumbing me down Likes it, obviously not. Perhaps you think thumbing me down will change my opinion:?
-VR
@Very-Rusty said"I believe you want a system where you can play as few games as possible and win something. I don't see how this improves the Clan Challenges System in anyway."
Bish,
You will never get every Clan Leader to play every Clan Leader as some would quit before they would do that.
Why two division's? So like minded clan Leaders can play each other and win every year? Do you Sincerely think that would be a good idea?
I believe you want a system where you can play as few games as possible and win something. I don't see how ...[text shortened]... me down Likes it, obviously not. Perhaps you think thumbing me down will change my opinion:?
-VR
This is good - we are getting somewhere. No not as few as games as possible. However also not 3616 games a year which is what Breaking Bad played last year. You finished 10 games every day all year. Breaking Bad won more games than the 4th place team played.
I am trying to grow the clan system - we won't do that if new clan leaders have to finish 10 games a day to compete. We won't. Yes it works for your clan - no argument. Yes you play by the rules - no argument. It is not a way to grow the system - which is what I am talking about.
The point I have been trying to make here is - I think the current rules benefit certain Clans and Clan Leaders. Leaders who have more time. As a new clan leader I don't have 40 hours a week to dedicate to this. If you combine both you and Michael it is probably greater than that. I have a job and family and I want to compete in the Clan table too. How do I do all that? How do any of us do all that?
If the answer is I don't - too bad for me if I can't match the time you and Michael put in then so be it. What does the clan system look like in five years if we don't keep improving it? I won't know of course - because like many before me - I won't be here watching you lift another trophy,
You say I should respond to your ideas and I agree. What ideas? Besides keep everything the same. What are your new ideas to improve the clan system? To grow the system. To make it inviting for players like me to start a clan and recruit players and compete?
Final comment this morning - I have to actually do my real job - what is lost here is that you and Michael do the work and probably create the best challenges. Michael is probably the best clan leader we have. How would we know if your strategy is bludgeoning us with the number of challenges or games.
What if we had a Cup with everyone playing the same amount of games? Wouldn't it be fun to both outwork and outsmart the rest of us?