next years ladder results

Congrats to IVV and Breaking Bad.

Metallica can rub salt 😒

@contenchess said
Congrats to IVV and Breaking Bad.

Metallica can rub salt 😒

Thank you for the kind words. My players worked so hard to get to where they are. Nothing was given, I had to gamble a lot to just get matches or games. But they really played hard, and never once complained about how much they played.

It's an honor to be a part of the group I'm with.

Next year will be rough. The following year I think we will have a great year.

Congrats to IVV as well. And congrats to anyone on page 1 and the top 10. Both great achievements.

Happy Holiday's and a great New Year to everyone although I do know it is early yet.

All my best Contenchess. 🙂

I will have my assistant read your diatribe/manifesto.

All I know is you just made it onto "The List"

I put you near the top. 🤨

@Contenchess
It is a pity that you can't read yourself, and someone needs to read it for you.

As far as your "list" goes....perhaps you should pound sand with it....

@Contenchess

As a former Clan member who didn't leave under good terms, I can tell you that I never saw anything underhanded going on. Now would be my time to speak up if I did. People's ratings go up and down that is a fact. Mine goes between a 200 point difference. Probably because I play on two other sites so 3 altogether move quickly and carry a big game load most of the time.

What we had was a Clan who worked hard together and cared about winning. Timing out in games was not acceptable as it should be in every Clan in my opinion.
Keep in mind many of us were retired so had lots of time for playing chess which most likely gave us an advantage over everyone else. The Clan has changed considerably over the years not the Clan it once was in my opinion. Having said that, do not ever count Metallica out, I don't.

I have to agree with my former and ex-clan leader of Metallica we were reported many times and Russ investigated and found no wrong doing on our part. I am now in a different clan because of differences with a fellow clanmate that couldn't be resolved. I know that would be a question you'd ask me. I was with the Clan since 2008 so 13 years and many Championships along the way. Over 1600 Clan Challenge wins.

Trust me when I tell you I was very hurt having to leave the Clan but did it of my own free will. I was not booted as rumor has it. So if there was any dirt on Metallica I wouldn't have an issue pointing it out. There is just nothing there to find, it is that simple.

VR

I decided to wait a few days before responding to the latest missiles aimed at Metallica.
I read the post of Contenchess (Nov 29). Since removed.
I also read the response from shortcircuit (Nov 30). Also since removed.
I also thought that it would be appropriate to allow shortcircuit first shot since he was the immensely successful leader of Metallica throughout most of the clan's success and the resulting continuous accusations against our clan.

I'd like the address some of the accusations point by point.

1 - the accusation contenchess levelled against Metallica players. In particular, sandbagging. By looking at Metallica players only, it is easy to say that he is cherry picking his data. As a clan leader who sets challenges with other clans and evaluates their players, I can tell that there are numerous players on the other side of the fence who's current rating can be 200, 300 or more points below their best rating in the last 5 years.
Bluntly put .... rating variances are NOT unique to Metallica !!

2 - shortcircuit has in the past stated that player ratings should not always be trusted (this is further to above). So it is the responsibility of the clan leader to do his/her homework. And it is perfectly normal for a clan leader to out negotiate the opposing clan leader. Half the competition in clan challenges is the negotiation between the 2 clan leaders. And that means homework. And knowledge of the playing field (i.e. - the players out there).
I'm not ashamed to say that shortcircuit has let me know when I missed out on a particular matchup when the player ratings didn't provide me with the information I needed to make a good choice. That comes with the massive experience of a seasoned clan leader.

3 - suggesting that Metallica players manipulate their rating using tournament games (or games other than clan games).
I can tell you that the majority of our players have far more clan games than non-clan games. I see 3 players that are the exception (me being one of them). Our ratings are stable. And I challenge anyone to accuse me of rating manipulation. btw, I've won 600 games and lost fewer than 400. My rating has been consistent. And I have never tossed a tournament game.

4 - trying to support a claim that the 2 or 3 leading clans play clean because their players have a won/lost ratio close to 50/50 in clan games.
First of all, I don't believe the 2 or 3 lead clans are cheating. Otherwise I would have brought it up.
But I have to ask ........ if every player in a clan has a W/L ratio close to 50/50, then how can it be that the 3 leading clans have won about twice as many challenges as they have lost. One would think that the challenge W/L ratio would tend closer to 50/50, would it not ??
Further examination reveals that the top clans have won collectively as a team hundreds more clan games than they have lost. Including Metallica.
Successful clans do that. They win more games then they lose. They win more challenges than they lose. The clan standings are there for all to see.

To sum up, toss your accusations. But toss them at every clan who is successful if you are not happy.
If you have an obsession with Metallica, then continue to cherry pick your data for your accusations.
You don't bother our clan. We're used to it.
It comes with being the best clan in the history of RHP.

As always, I fully support the clan feature.
And when the time comes to offer kudos to the winning clan, I will offer my hand in congratulations.
I did that 8 years to the leader of Wycombe when they won that title in 2013.
And I look forward to competing in 2022.
And we will continue to defend our clan against the rubbish that sometimes comes our way.

From what I can remember from all the accusations against Metallica,I believe the main point concerned Metallica members resigning games they could have won when the challenge was statistically lost so that new challenges could be mounted.
That is a tactic that upset the likes of Mctayto and others.
Did/do Metallica do that?
It is of course a legal tactic(or perhaps a "loophole" in the system) but maybe not in the true spirit of playing on here.
Personally,as I've said before I don't really care who finishes at the top of the net points list(that is all it is -one list of many) but I would interested in any "sensible" comments anyone would like to add to the discussion and by sensible I don't mean all the muck slinging that sometimes pollutes this forum

@venda said
From what I can remember from all the accusations against Metallica,I believe the main point concerned Metallica members resigning games they could have won when the challenge was statistically lost so that new challenges could be mounted.
That is a tactic that upset the likes of Mctayto and others.
Did/do Metallica do that?
It is of course a legal tactic(or perhaps a "looph ...[text shortened]... the discussion and by sensible I don't mean all the muck slinging that sometimes pollutes this forum

Venda,
What do you think of people who hold up a challenge so a new one can't be started? Is that not also a tactic? When someone's game is lost should they just not resign and not drag it out just so the Clan they are playing can NOT start another challenge? There are two sides to that coin.

NOTE: I am not a member of Metallica any longer, just presenting what I consider some fair questions.

-VR

@venda said
From what I can remember from all the accusations against Metallica,I believe the main point concerned Metallica members resigning games they could have won when the challenge was statistically lost so that new challenges could be mounted.
That is a tactic that upset the likes of Mctayto and others.
Did/do Metallica do that?
It is of course a legal tactic(or perhaps a "looph ...[text shortened]... the discussion and by sensible I don't mean all the muck slinging that sometimes pollutes this forum

No. That was not the main point.
The main point was that Metallica was accused of sandbagging their ratings.

And if it is suggested that a player manipulates their rating by tossing clan games, I will simply say that it is very difficult to do that with clan games alone.
This can only be done by using non-clan games.
You can ask McTayto how that is done.
He was banned from clan games for doing that.

As to how any clan should manage games remaining in a decided challenge, that is another discussion.
But once again, the assumption comes up that only one clan is doing this practice that you are suggesting.

I will tell you this.
If it is Dec 31st, and we have a won challenge that we need to take the yearly title, I will not hesitate to cash in the challenge if our opponent holds up any game still going.
And I won't apologize for that.

As a comment, I had suggested back in 2017 that the challenge points could be awarded once the challenge is decided rather than completed. And then any remaining games in the challenge be flipped to unrated games.
That would solve that issue.

Well this year's winner has the classic 50/50 win loss ratio...not counting draws.

All hail the TRUE champions 🏆

The sad part is Metallica is my favorite band 😢

@mghrn55

No.

Solving the issue is Clan Game Ratings.

Clan wins go up and your rating goes up.
You play tougher opponents.

Yall can argue all yall want...

Nothing will change until Clan games have a separate rating.

"I have spoken...I HAVE SPOKEN!!"

...from the movie...Beowulf 😏

@Contenchess
You are delirious.
Reality is a great concept.
Give it a try.