next years ladder results

@shortcircuit

It seems I know exactly how to push your buttons 😏

I'm all over you like cheap paint.

@contenchess said
@shortcircuit

It seems I know exactly how to push your buttons 😏

I'm all over you like cheap paint.

I guess your time in the prison system (which you so proudly brag about in the debates form) has allowed you to fine tune your delusional tendencies. 😛

@contenchess said
Well this year's winner has the classic 50/50 win loss ratio...not counting draws.

All hail the TRUE champions 🏆

The sad part is Metallica is my favorite band 😢

You haven't answered the question put before you.
How does a clan whose players have the "classic 50/50 won loss ratio" wind up with a 68/32 challenge won loss ratio ?

And yes, when the time comes, I will offer congratulations to the winning clan.

But you should answer the question.

@contenchess said
@mghrn55

No.

Solving the issue is Clan Game Ratings.

Clan wins go up and your rating goes up.
You play tougher opponents.

Yall can argue all yall want...

Nothing will change until Clan games have a separate rating.

This was put forth to Russ 5 years ago.
I was one of the people in full support of the idea.

@very-rusty said
Venda,
What do you think of people who hold up a challenge so a new one can't be started? Is that not also a tactic? When someone's game is lost should they just not resign and not drag it out just so the Clan they are playing can NOT start another challenge? There are two sides to that coin.

NOTE: I am not a member of Metallica any longer, just presenting what I consider some fair questions.

-VR

There's 2 sides to EVERY coin Rusty and you have a valid point, although I would question the reason you give for "holding up" a challenge.
I think there are other reasons for individuals dragging out their games.One is devilment-torment your opponent like the players who move at the last minute before being timed out and another is the vain hope that the opponent falls ill or something and they can claim the game on timeout.
It happens in tournaments all the time!

@mghrn55 said
No. That was not the main point.
The main point was that Metallica was accused of sandbagging their ratings.

And if it is suggested that a player manipulates their rating by tossing clan games, I will simply say that it is very difficult to do that with clan games alone.
This can only be done by using non-clan games.
You can ask McTayto how that is done.
He was banned ...[text shortened]... then any remaining games in the challenge be flipped to unrated games.
That would solve that issue.

Thanks for your reply.
I wasn't aware of the 2017 suggestion but it certainly has merit.
Perhaps it's too difficult to implement and even then I suggest the player who is on the brink of winning his game only to have it relegated to non rated would not be too impressed!
I have always thought the clan rating system has faults because you cannot compare like for like.A list based on percentage wins with a minimum number of completed challenges to qualify to be on it would be more representative than the net points list.I suggested this years ago but nothing changed.
The issue of deliberately lowering your individual rating to con other leaders (sandbagging)is different.I don't think Metallica ever did that.
When Fred was in charge, some of the challenges he sent to us(the Laikers) were in my opinion extremely biased and we had many discussions on the subject sometimes resulting in compromises but that is another "tactic" of course.It is up to the other leaders to spot the biased challenges and dispute them.
I wonder how many leaders just accept a challenge because they can't be bothered to check it out?
This would be good for clans ,like Metallica,who issue lots of challenges as they will know over time which clan leaders are the most gullible.

@venda said
Thanks for your reply.
I wasn't aware of the 2017 suggestion but it certainly has merit.
Perhaps it's too difficult to implement and even then I suggest the player who is on the brink of winning his game only to have it relegated to non rated would not be too impressed!
I have always thought the clan rating system has faults because you cannot compare like for like.A list b ...[text shortened]... a,who issue lots of challenges as they will know over time which clan leaders are the most gullible.

Thank you for your reply.
On the subject of awarding the points when challenge is clinched, that still leaves games remaining to be completed. If people resign those games en-masse, then the accusations of game dumping for rating manipulation will start. And usually the reasons are valid since players would like to close those games in-order to get new matches. By making the games unrated, this can be avoided and offers the players a chance to continue those games if they wish.

As to negotiating clan challenges, yes some challenges appear lopsided on the first offer.
But that is the nature of negotiations.
Unions do it. Asking for 5% increase so they can get 3%.
Athletes do the same.
Part of negotiating. I've said repeatedly that challenge negotiation is a major part of the clan feature.
The chess board is the other. At the end of the day, the players will decide the outcome on the board.
But one clan leader trying to one up another is part of the game.
Shortcircuit was (and still is) best at the game.
And there was no cheating during his tenure at the helm of Metallica.
And there is no cheating while I am at the helm.

@venda said
There's 2 sides to EVERY coin Rusty and you have a valid point, although I would question the reason you give for "holding up" a challenge.
I think there are other reasons for individuals dragging out their games.One is devilment-torment your opponent like the players who move at the last minute before being timed out and another is the vain hope that the opponent falls ill or something and they can claim the game on timeout.
It happens in tournaments all the time!

A tournament is completely different from the way Clan Challenges are done here Venda which we both know. In a tournament you are just playing for yourself, but you do get a bad name if you are one of those people who play a game long after you've lost it and it isn't very nice to have. Pre-determined times to start next game have already been given you usually have a schedule of when you next game will be.

When you are playing in Clan Challenges and you hold up finishing clan challenges you are stopping a whole clan from starting a new challenge as they have to wait for that one game that is being drug out for no reason. I'd say the question here is the person dragging out the game to stop a challenge from starting just a tactic he/she is using?

-VR

@very-rusty said
A tournament is completely different from the way Clan Challenges are done here Venda which we both know. In a tournament you are just playing for yourself, but you do get a bad name if you are one of those people who play a game long after you've lost it and it isn't very nice to have. Pre-determined times to start next game have already been given you usually have a sche ...[text shortened]... person dragging out the game to stop a challenge from starting just a tactic he/she is using?

-VR

Of course tournaments are different from clan challenges for the reasons you say.
I suppose it's up to the clan leader to make sure his player is not employing any delaying tactics in the challenges.
I never checked what my players were doing when I was leader and I don't suppose many leaders do.
The only easy way to stop it would be for the player who is being delayed to report it to his leader,and the leader contact the other clan and try and resolve it that way

@mghrn55 said
Thank you for your reply.
On the subject of awarding the points when challenge is clinched, that still leaves games remaining to be completed. If people resign those games en-masse, then the accusations of game dumping for rating manipulation will start. And usually the reasons are valid since players would like to close those games in-order to get new matches. By making the ...[text shortened]... eating during his tenure at the helm of Metallica.
And there is no cheating while I am at the helm.

So I am playing a rated game against someone 300 rating points above me and winning for the game to suddenly be declared unrated so my leader can mount some new challenges?
I don't really bother about my rating but lots of players do.
Not the answer I fear.
On the subject of trying to "put one over" on other leaders I think it can go too far.
I always looked at Fred's challenges but I'm willing to bet other leaders will think"another lopsided challenge from Metallica" and delete it straight away

@venda said
Of course tournaments are different from clan challenges for the reasons you say.
I suppose it's up to the clan leader to make sure his player is not employing any delaying tactics in the challenges.
I never checked what my players were doing when I was leader and I don't suppose many leaders do.
The only easy way to stop it would be for the player who is being delayed to report it to his leader,and the leader contact the other clan and try and resolve it that way

Venda,
All I know is both my ex-Clan Leaders kept a very close watch on our games, maybe part of the reason for our success for all the winning we had. Of course a big and in my opinion the biggest is negotiating the Clan Challenges.

I agree with you many of the leaders don't keep track of what their players are doing. I would assume some leaders would be very difficult to deal with, ( my opinion of course).

We all know lop sided challenges happen, but the Clan Leader had to accept it. As a new player on Breaking Bad Clan I was looking at some of the challenges that really looked like it was lopsided and the other clan had the advantage and yet we won the challenge. I think that is because the Clan Leader knew his players true rating and opponents true rating. Just an observation on my part.

-VR

@venda said
So I am playing a rated game against someone 300 rating points above me and winning for the game to suddenly be declared unrated so my leader can mount some new challenges?
I don't really bother about my rating but lots of players do.
Not the answer I fear.
On the subject of trying to "put one over" on other leaders I think it can go too far.
I always looked at Fred's chall ...[text shortened]... bet other leaders will think"another lopsided challenge from Metallica" and delete it straight away

Then the solution is to stop the incessant whining about sandbagging with one clan constantly in the crosshairs.
(not by you, btw)

Problem solved !!

As to lopsided challenges. If that is what a clan leader sees, then he/she has the choice to produce a counter-offer or simply decline the challenge.
At least there is some due diligence on their part.
But once the challenge has been accepted and the matchups agreed to, usually after 2 or 3 rounds of negotiation (counter-offers), then the match is set.
And usually too late for second guessing and whining after the fact.

maybe all clan games should be unrated as you are playing to win the game/challenge for your clan not boost your rating

@wycombe-al said
maybe all clan games should be unrated as you are playing to win the game/challenge for your clan not boost your rating

Not really practical Al.
Suppose a player plays only clan games?
How would you assess their ability when offering or accepting challenges?

@venda said
Not really practical Al.
Suppose a player plays only clan games?
How would you assess their ability when offering or accepting challenges?

I concur with you on this Venda.

-VR