suggestions for clan govenance

Originally posted by padger
If this is the case why does Robbie keep on about a system that we already use ,that doesn't work effectively
The only ELO I know is the one that sang Mr Blue Skies

Whatever the formula used, rating systems assign the same value to each game. The effectiveness is challenged because human players do not, for both innocent and nefarious reasons.

As it happens I saw an old Jeff Lynne singing those same songs at some recent gig on the box the other day!

Originally posted by Ragwort
Whatever the formula used, rating systems assign the same value to each game. The effectiveness is challenged because human players do not, for both innocent and nefarious reasons.

As it happens I saw an old Jeff Lynne singing those same songs at some recent gig on the box the other day!

Having seen the formula for getting your rating
I have said often that the way to beat rating cheats ( sandbaggers ) is to make it easier to go up than down
In that case instead of using 400 for a win and 400 for a loss why not 500 for a win and 300 for a loss

ELO are supposed to be touring again next year with some new tunes as well as the old ones

Originally posted by padger
If this is the case why does Robbie keep on about a system that we already use ,that doesn't work effectively
The only ELO I know is the one that sang Mr Blue Skies

your ELO is your rating. If you win a game against a player of similar rating it will go up, if you lose it will go down. If you win against a much lower rated player it will hardly move and if you win against a much higher rated player it goes up tons. Now what are the pros and cons?

There is no incentive to sandbag - you beat up a lower rated player and you will get hardly anything for it

There will be a greater emphasis on creating fair challenges as every clan leader will be made to be judicious in the challenges they accept

The entire challenge is not decided on a first past the post winner takes all basis, but on a proportional basis

The cons - as Raggers stated, its open to abuse from engine use as is the main players table, but I think this will become easier to spot in clan games and clan leaders will be able to avoid it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
your ELO is your rating. If you win a game against a player of similar rating it will go up, if you lose it will go down. If you win against a much lower rated player it will hardly move and if you win against a much higher rated player it goes up tons. Now what are the pros and cons?

There is no incentive to sandbag - you beat up a lower rated ...[text shortened]... I think this will become easier to spot in clan games and clan leaders will be able to avoid it.

The problem is that Sandbaggers not only use the Clan Challenge system for their cheating ways but also Tournaments
Throw a way loads of games to get a lower rating then use that to enter tournaments that they shouldn't be in
Tournaments are awash with them
If you are saying that the ELO also fixes the stupid way Clan Challenge points are awarded then I am all for it
But I would still make it easier to go up in rating than come down

Originally posted by padger
The problem is that Sandbaggers not only use the Clan Challenge system for their cheating ways but also Tournaments
Throw a way loads of games to get a lower rating then use that to enter tournaments that they shouldn't be in
Tournaments are awash with them
If you are saying that the ELO also fixes the stupid way Clan Challenge points are awarded then I am all for it
But I would still make it easier to go up in rating than come down

this would be solved by unhinging their rating and giving them a specific clan rating.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this would be solved by unhinging their rating and giving them a specific clan rating.

robbie,
Your cheating with Breaking bad, anti-metallica & arrow....having them hand you points on a silver platter...Oh yes that platter must be gold now with HUNDREDS OF POINTS they have thrown your way, would help solve a lot of the problems.

How do you expect to be part of the SOLUTION when you are in MOST PART the PROBLEM?

-VR

Originally posted by Very Rusty
robbie,
Your cheating with Breaking bad, anti-metallica & arrow....having them hand you points on a silver platter...Oh yes that platter must be gold now with HUNDREDS OF POINTS they have thrown your way, would help solve a lot of the problems.

How do you expect to be part of the SOLUTION when you are in MOST PART the PROBLEM?

-VR

Please start your own thread you saggy ol baggster, this thread is for clan governance, not another metallics weep fest

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Please start your own thread you saggy ol baggster, this thread is for clan governance, not another metallics weep fest

robbie,
I don't need your permission to post in any thread. Too bad if you don't like my comments. I tell it like it is, as you know I never candy coat anything I say. At least I am not the name caller or cheater you are!!! I can be proud of that FACT!!!

-VR

Lets not go down this route again
Nothing is gained by insulting each other
Unless the purpose is to stop anything worthwhile happening

To me the main cause of complaint is complicity between clans to effect one of them to get to the top of the pile
To stop this clans should not be allowed to set up challenges where they have the same players or limit each player to one clan
The problem of setting up lop sided challenges has been almost sorted by the 200 rule
I still think this should be 100 on the 5 year average ,which is what I do my challenges
There is also the problem of points awarded
The current system of winner takes all is stupid
It should be wins plus 5 for the winning clan
So a 6 - 4 win would give the winning clan 11 and the losing clan 4
Much fairer way of sorting out the points

The next biggy is sandbagging
There have been lots of suggestions to combat this
One of mine is to make it easier to go up in rating than it is to go down
The current formula uses 400 each way up or down
I would change this to 500 up and 300 down
Also they should not go down more than 100 from their top position in any 12 months

Originally posted by padger
Lets not go down this route again
Nothing is gained by insulting each other
Unless the purpose is to stop anything worthwhile happening

To me the main cause of complaint is complicity between clans to effect one of them to get to the top of the pile
To stop this clans should not be allowed to set up challenges where they have the same players or limit e ...[text shortened]... nd 300 down
Also they should not go down more than 100 from their top position in any 12 months

thankyou.

I will put forth a suggestion of my own in addition to the one I have already submitted.
Suggestion already submitted:
A referee system to be run by site to investigate irregular activity in the clan feature. And then to administer corrective actions and/or penalty.
Of course, a referee can also come to the conclusion that nothing wrong occured. But at least there is an investigative process.
Pro - very little IT $$ spent.
Con - takes up time and resources of site admin.

New suggestions:
1 - any clan game that does not reach the required 3 moves to become rated should not contribute to the point total of the clan challenge.
This would cover off resignation by players before even starting.
Would also cover off time-outs.
The game(s) should declared be null and void. Further discussion can determine if the entire challenge should be declared null and void.
Pros - minimal $$ cost to implement this and will encourage participants to play the match.
Cons - players who are determined to engage in inappropriate activity can work around this by playing 3 moves, then resigning. But the idea is a start.

1A - the above suggestion can be implemented retro-actively. For instance, site can conduct a data sweep of every clan challenge in 2016 and initiate a corrective process that would correct the clan net points total for every clan. If the entire clan challenge is declared null and void, then the net points for both clans (+ and -) are removed from the net point total.
Some clans will experience a reduction in their net point total.
Other clans will experience an improvement in their net point totals.
3 clans in particular will benefit considerably !! 😀

I personally consider these flawed somewhat, but they represent a good starting point for discussion.

Originally posted by mghrn55
I will put forth a suggestion of my own in addition to the one I have already submitted.
Suggestion already submitted:
A referee system to be run by site to investigate irregular activity in the clan feature. And then to administer corrective actions and/or penalty.
Of course, a referee can also come to the conclusion that nothing wrong occured. But at l ...[text shortened]... sonally consider these flawed somewhat, but they represent a good starting point for discussion.

what a pile of old crock. That wont fix a darn thing.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what a pile of old crock. That wont fix a darn thing.

robbie,
Funny you would say that as those suggestion would put a stop to what you and your cohorts have been doing. No wonder you don't like it!

-VR

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what a pile of old crock. That wont fix a darn thing.

They have already put in logic to render these games as unrated.
Why not have these games not count in clan challenges ??
Having games that don't even leave the start line count towards a result in a clan challenge isn't right.
And in many cases, a game that isn't even played affecting the outcome of a clan challenge !!
This isn't right.

This isn't complicated !!

Are you worried that many of your completed challenges might be put at risk ??

Originally posted by mghrn55
They have already put in logic to render these games as unrated.
Why not have these games not count in clan challenges ??
Having games that don't even leave the start line count towards a result in a clan challenge isn't right.
And in many cases, a game that isn't even played affecting the outcome of a clan challenge !!
This isn't right.

This isn't complicated !!

Are you worried that many of your completed challenges might be put at risk ??

Dude I am more worried about what I am going to wear to my inauguration as leader of the Chess King's of the Internet.