Originally posted by jaywillI didn't know Penderecki is considered atonal. Discordant, sure. At any rate, I enjoy his stuff in much the same way I enjoy Diamanda Galas. Prime horror material.
Arnold Schoenberg, Anton Webern, Stochousen, Pendericke, Roger Sessions, Elliot Carter, Henze, and of course all "12 tone" composers of the 20th century.
I've tried Schoenberg's atonal stuff; bemusing, but there's too much other more enjoyable stuff for me to bother.
I like Charles Ives & Harry Partch.
What do you think of Mauricio Kagel? http://www.ubu.com/sound/kagel02.html
Group 180 is I suppose 'modern classical music': http://www.ubu.com/sound/group_180.html
Originally posted by wormwoodi liked that aube track - made me think of Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music: &feature=related
I think a ballet in outer space with no gravity sounds like an excellent musical goal.
these are not it, though:
whitehouse - dans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkBmpxUF9_M
msbr (some live, sounds like 'kunbaka in water' but probably isn't...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-kp-uAevys
maldoror - butterfly kiss
http://www.youtube.com/wat ...[text shortened]... 's great stuff):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Qd4LseHDo
is it music? who cares!
great thread - i knew a lot of this stuff was out theere, but haven't got around to listening to much of it. my interest has been piqued by the discussion.
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Originally posted by NemesioWell, it's pretty evident that we look for and receive very different things from music and I suspect that that would be true of art in general. Do you find value in abstract painting? Just curious. I see a parallel between the ideas introduced to painting in the late 19th century forward and those introduced to music generally a step behind.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Yes, pretty much everything can be considered music, though there is the idea of composing the organization of sound.
Well, I don't think that all examples of organized sound is music. I see no reason why I should do
so suddenly in great departure with the past, especially since I find such 'music' decidedl the most unfortunate occurrences within Western Art Music, I believe.
Nemesio[/b]
Originally posted by NemesioIt appears that you have misinterpreted my comments.
You must be confusing my posts with those of someone else in some other thread or something.
The only analogy I made was between the a(nti)tonal composers of the 2nd Viennese school and
the poets of the so-called 'LANGUAGE' movement, in which the grammar that originally defined
the language of the medium is dissolved -- in the music, by getting rid of any ...[text shortened]... what I'm saying, then articulate it. But stop misrepresenting what
I'm saying.
Nemesio
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Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]You can expand the definition of music to be "organized sound".
I could, but then 'poetry' could be consider music, or traffic, or snoring because they all involve
sound. I think restricting music to something which focuses on tone (or pitch) makes more sense.[/b]
Originally posted by Nemesioi find these definitions too narrow.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You can expand the definition of music to be "organized sound".
I could, but then 'poetry' could be consider music, or traffic, or snoring because they all involve
sound. I think restricting music to something which focuses on tone (or pitch) makes more sense.
Most music is "about the creation and release of tension".
I agree with the various different aspects that can create tension. I think I said that, or at least I tried to.
Originally posted by eldragonflyWell, what on earth were you saying? It seemed like you incorrectly believed that I only appreciated
It appears that you have misinterpreted my comments.
Western Art Music, or that I was making 'bottom of the barrel' analogies. I explained why I wasn't.
If you, maybe, elaborated rather than offering snippets of sentence fragments, there might be
a dialogue to be had.
Nemesio
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Originally posted by Nemesioi already have, when i made the statement that 'Western music and in particular Classical Western music isn't the end all and be all of music or musical expression.' i am not at all familiar with any of the composers that you have taken to task here, and in some cases find fault with.
Instead of complaining without content about my definitions, how about you offer some?
Nemesio
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Do you find value in abstract painting? Just curious.
You mean like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Theo_van_Doesburg_Counter-CompositionV_%281924%29.jpg
or:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image😛ollockTela.jpg
If so, then no. If my son can draw it, then I probably don't like it. Again, it's not from lack
of studying -- I'm reasonably familiar with Western artistic periods through the early 20th century,
but that's where my interest (and knowledge) generally wanes.
I see a parallel between the ideas introduced to painting in the late 19th century forward and those introduced to music generally a step behind.
I think it's that way from the 15th century on, with painting styles generally a generation ahead
of musical ones.
Nemesio
Originally posted by eldragonflyThen you aren't contesting me, since I neither said that nor believe it.
i already have, when i made the statement that 'Western music and in particular Classical Western music isn't the end all and be all of music or musical expression.' i am not at all familiar with any of the composers that you have taken to task here, and in some cases find fault with.
It's not my fault you don't know the composers I take to task. Do a little homework before
levying a complaint about what I did (or in this case didn't) say.
Nemesio
Originally posted by eldragonflyOffer a counter definition that isn't so broad that fingernails scraping against a blackboard won't
Then you admit that your definitions are too narrow to do the ideas surrounding and/or behind musical expression any justice.
be considered music, and we'll see if I concede that you are right.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioRead my statement again, i was quoting myself not your self-aggrandizing redundant statements. i find your out of hand criticisms of certain forms of classical music to be rather curious.
Then you aren't contesting me, since I neither said that nor believe it.
It's not my fault you don't know the composers I take to task. Do a little homework before
levying a complaint about what I did (or in this case didn't) say.