1. Joined
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    23 Feb '12 14:16
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    You obviously have no idea about prison in the U.S.
    Just flapping you'r gums.
    The prison system in the U.S.A. obviously has no idea about human biology and psychology.

    I'd like to note that crime rates in my country and yours bear this out.

    Richard
  2. Garner, NC
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    24 Feb '12 20:02
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    Well, that's part of the problem with such ridiculous sentences. If, in practical terms, you're going to spend life in the can for holding up a liquor store anyway, you might as well kill both attendants in an attempt to get away with it. If they do catch you after all, they'll lock you up for two life sentences for murder plus the ninety years for armed robbery, but what difference does that make, in real terms? None.

    Richard
    I've never heard of anyone getting 90 years for armed robbery if (1) no one was injured and (2) there was no prior criminal record. Although armed robbery is very serious compared to say, burglary.

    If someone is killed in an armed robbery, it will generally be treated as first degree (premeditated murder). I guess they don't want people bringing guns to robberies, killing someone, then getting off easy because they "never intended for anyone to get hurt".
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Mar '12 18:05
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Premeditated murder or something else particularly heinous , your facing life. Or, the death penalty( depending on the state , of course) Usually after doing about 10 years on death row.
    Here in Arizona they just executed a man who had been on death row for 28 years for killing his adoptive mother in 1984.

    So the state feeds and houses these scumbags but takes children off the transplant lists because it "can't afford it".
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
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    04 Mar '12 23:19
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Here in Arizona they just executed a man who had been on death row for 28 years for killing his adoptive mother in 1984.

    So the state feeds and houses these scumbags but takes children off the transplant lists because it "can't afford it".
    And you blame it on the murderers?

    How about the politicians that spend trillions of "defence"every year?

    Or do they have you convinced that you need it?
  5. Hy-Brasil
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    05 Mar '12 10:122 edits
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    The prison system in the U.S.A. obviously has no idea about human biology and psychology.

    I'd like to note that crime rates in my country and yours bear this out.

    Richard
    I'd like to note that crime rates in my country and yours bear this out.- Shallow Blue


    Yep ! You got me there!

    Neteherlands

    Variable Amount/description Rank
    Crime > Assaults 44,129 [14th of 58]
    Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 2.33559 per 1,000 people [15th of 55]
    Crime > Drug offences 47 per 100,000 people [20th of 36]
    Crime > Illicit drugs
    major European producer of ecstasy, illicit amphetamines, and other synthetic drugs; important gateway for cocaine, heroin, and hashish entering Europe; major source of US-bound ecstasy; large financial sector vulnerable to money laundering
    Crime > Murders 183 [40th of 63]
    Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.0111538 per 1,000 people [51st of 62]
    Crime > Rapes 1,648 [20th of 66]
    Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.100445 per 1,000 people [22nd of 65]
    Crime > Total crimes 1,305,640 [14th of 61]
    Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 79.5779 per 1,000 people


    USA;

    Variable Amount/description Rank
    Crime > Assaults 2,238,480 [1st of 58]
    Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 3.8795 per 1,000 people [9th of 55]
    Crime > Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]
    Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
    Crime > Murders with firearms 8,259 [4th of 32]
    Crime > Murders with firearms (per capita) 0.0279271 per 1,000 people [8th of 32]
    Crime > Rapes 89,110 [1st of 66]
    Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.301318 per 1,000 people [9th of 65]
    Crime > Total crimes 23,677,800 [1st of 61]
    Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 80.0645 per 1,000 people

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
  6. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    05 Mar '12 18:37
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    I'd like to note that crime rates in my country and yours bear this out.- Shallow Blue


    Yep ! You got me there!

    [b] Neteherlands


    Variable Amount/description Rank
    Crime > Assaults 44,129 [14th of 58]
    Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 2.33559 per 1,000 people [15th of 55]
    Crime > Drug offences 47 per 100,000 people [20th ...[text shortened]... r 1,000 people[/b]

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita[/b]
    Crime > Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]

    Yes he did.
  7. Hy-Brasil
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    07 Mar '12 19:57
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Crime > Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]

    Yes he did.
    Did he say "crime rates" or "murder rate" ?
  8. Joined
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    07 Mar '12 20:361 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Yep ! You got me there!

    Neteherlands]
    [14th of 58]; [15th of 55]; [20th of 36]; [40th of 63]; [51st of 62]; [20th of 66]; [22nd of 65]; [14th of 61]
    Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 79.5779 per 1,000 people

    USA;
    [1st of 58]; [9th of 55]; [6th of 63]; [24th of 62]; [4th of 32]; [8th of 32]; [1st of 66]; [9th of 65]; [1st of 61]
    Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 80.0645 per 1,000 people
    These numbers don't add up. The USA is consistently ahead of the Netherlands, and not a little ahead either. 1st against 14th; 4th against 51st; 9th against 22nd. And in the end reckoning there's only about a 1% difference between them? That simply can't be true. Someone is fudging his numbers here on a massive scale, and I don't believe it's you yourself.

    Richard
  9. Standard memberDrKF
    incipit parodia
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    07 Mar '12 20:542 edits
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Did he say "crime rates" or "murder rate" ?
    He said 'crime rates' but he certainly didn't say 'total crime rates' - that's how you chose to interpret it, because it suits you. Just as valid an interpretation is 'rates of particular crimes'. Even if the total number of offences is roughly similar, the two countries still have very, very different crime rates, as in rates of particular crimes: three times as many murders, three times as many rapes, 1.5 times more car thefts on the only directly comparable figures.

    If Country A has 100 offences every year, but they are all murders, and Country B also has 100 offences a year, but they are all jaywalking, those countries have very different crime rates and only a fool would pretend otherwise.

    I'd like to see a better breakdown of all those Dutch offences, but on the information you gave, I'd sooner be a victim of crime in the Netherlands because their crime rates are very, very different.

    (Edit: Richard, hopefully you can see now that the figures don't need to be fudged for the total number of crimes to be quite similar, but the US to be a considerably worse place, crime-wise by most people's reckoning, than the Netherlands.)
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    07 Mar '12 21:42
    Originally posted by DrKF

    (Edit: Richard, hopefully you can see now that the figures don't need to be fudged for the total number of crimes to be quite similar, but the US to be a considerably worse place, crime-wise by most people's reckoning, than the Netherlands.)
    In my country we only arrest people for serious crimes like murder and anachronistic fashion sense. In your country, murderers walk free - God will judge them - but scores of jay-walkers are arrested every day, while numbers who indulge in sinful thoughts just turn themselves in. That means on the balance your country has more crime, although there are one hundred and one times as many murders in mine.
  11. Standard memberDrKF
    incipit parodia
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    07 Mar '12 21:471 edit
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    In my country we only arrest people for serious crimes like murder and anachronistic fashion sense. In your country, murderers walk free - God will judge them - but scores of jay-walkers are arrested every day, while numbers who indulge in sinful thoughts just turn themselves in. That means on the balance your country has more crime, although there are one hundred and one times as many murders in mine.
    Hey! Jaywalking isn't a crime in Scotland! 😉
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