Originally posted by bbarr Out of morbid curiosity, which educational institutions in particular do you think the Department of Education currently funds?
I believe that at the moment, any University that takes Fed money lives by Fed rules. I think this is a gross mistake taking the Federal government into an area that it should not be.
Originally posted by no1marauder No, it isn't. It's giving institutions money to educate veterans. As regards the GI Bill:
This program will pay eligible individuals:
•tuition & fees [b]directly to the school not to exceed the maximum in-state tuition & fees at a public Institution of Higher Learning (Emphasis added)
I know the money goes directly to the instituion. It is the government picking up the soldier's tab. Anything beyond that is goes beyond what the Federal government is allowed to do according to the Constitution.
Originally posted by Eladar I believe that at the moment, any University that takes Fed money lives by Fed rules. I think this is a gross mistake taking the Federal government into an area that it should not be.
I am asking which educational institutions in particular are funded by The Department of Education, since your original complaint dealt with this department. If you want to broaden the discussion to include federal funding to to universities, that's fine, but now your point is different. Which source of federal funding are you particularly concerned with? NIH grants come with stipulations (e.g., you can't set your subjects on fire, etc.). Is this what you had in mind?
Originally posted by Eladar I know the money goes directly to the instituion. It is the government picking up the soldier's tab. Anything beyond that is goes beyond what the Federal government is allowed to do according to the Constitution.
So you think federal financial aid, in the form of grants and loans to college kids, is unconstitutional?
Originally posted by bbarr So you think federal financial aid, in the form of grants and loans to college kids, is unconstitutional?
Only if it brings with it the Federal government telling the institution what it can or can't teach. If it is anything other than money given to the people who then use it to pay for their education, it is Unconstitutional. But then unconstitutionality has nothing to do with what's legal and how things work. Seperate but Equal was once the law of the land and was how things worked. It was wrong and was corrected. This is wrong, but it won't be corrected.
Originally posted by Eladar Only if it brings with it the Federal government telling the institution what it can or can't teach. If it is anything other than money given to the people who then use it to pay for their education, it is Unconstitutional. But then unconstitutionality has nothing to do with what's legal and how things work. Seperate but Equal was once the law of the land ...[text shortened]... ow things worked. It was wrong and was corrected. This is wrong, but it won't be corrected.
Philosophically I'm not sure I have a problem with that position; things like banning States from receiving Federal highway funds unless they adopt an 18 year old drinking age seem dubious.
But where in the text of the Constitution do you find a basis for this argument?
Originally posted by no1marauder Philosophically I'm not sure I have a problem with that position; things like banning States from receiving Federal highway funds unless they adopt an 18 year old drinking age seem dubious.
But where in the text of the Constitution do you find a basis for this argument?
In the fact that the government can pay soldiers. I'm not too sure if simply giving scholarships is something the government should be able to do. It seems to me that the better way to achieve this goal is to give the 'scholarship' in the form of a tax credit. Federal Income tax is supported by amendment, in it would be the right to give tax credits.
Having said that I'm not sure if it is Constitutional to give a Tax credit beyond what's being taxed. The more I think about it, the more I think that government scholarships that are not part of the G.I. bill are Unconstitutional. The government could save a bunch of money if it were to do away with many of its 'grant' program. I do not believe the Constitution gives the Federal government the right to tax hard working Americans just to hand out the money as if it were candy.
Originally posted by Eladar Only if it brings with it the Federal government telling the institution what it can or can't teach. If it is anything other than money given to the people who then use it to pay for their education, it is Unconstitutional. But then unconstitutionality has nothing to do with what's legal and how things work. Seperate but Equal was once the law of the land ...[text shortened]... ow things worked. It was wrong and was corrected. This is wrong, but it won't be corrected.
But, speaking as someone who has taught at a University for almost 10 years, the federal government exerts no control over what is taught. Neither do state or local governments, for that matter. Those issues are decided by the faculties, typically at the department level, with input from university administrators regarding student needs, breadth requirements, etc. So, still, I'm not sure what your current problem is with federal involvement in our nation's educational infrastructure.
I thought there were certain hoops Universities had to jump through to receive government funds. They had to meet certain Curriculum criteria.
In any case, as I said earlier, I don't think the Federal government should be in the business of handing out scholarships to non-federal employees. I can see the GI bill since it is a 'perk' for joining the military. I view it no differently than federal employees having their insurance paid.
Perhaps there could be tax credits to the University for offering grants, which would also apply to any other business that wants to do charitable works. Simply handing out money is wrong. It is not Constitutional and the practice should be stopped.
02 Aug '10 23:43
10th Amendment to the US Constitution
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