Abortion/murder

Originally posted by @whodey
So you discount the teaching of the church that abortion is murder?

Duly noted.

I know that the abortion debate is the valid one. And complex.

That the position of the church be the baseline to this debate is hogwash to me !
Let's keep religion out of this, shall we ??

Originally posted by @kquinn909
So it's ok to abort but if you hurt a woman who's with child and the fetus dies you get charged w/murder. I'm confused.

First off, a fetus is not alive, a baby, or a person, until after five or six months in the womb.
but if you hurt a woman who's with child and the fetus dies you get charged w/murder. That's only the law in about 23 states in the United States. All other states it is not considered murder. However, you can be charged with a serious crime. I'm sure you could guess which 23 states those are.

Originally posted by @whodey
You did not answer the question.

The question is, do you agree with the official position of the Catholic church that abortion is murder?

Now if you sit back and say that murder may be part of the "mysterious:" will of God, then so be it.

Religion is the intellectual laggard in debate.

Please sit in the corner.

Originally posted by @whodey
The question was addressed to someone who said that they were a Catholic, not you.

I realize what you think of the Bible, and I'm equally sure that as much as you try to construe this issue as being only one of religion vs. secularism, it is not. This issue is also one of science and our humanity. I realize you think humans become humans only after the ...[text shortened]... ry waves her wand over the fetus as it exists the womb, so why not believe in the Bible as well?

so why not believe in the Bible as well?
The Bible, both Old and New Testaments do not say one word about abortion. Even though, abortion was just as common in the days of Jesus on this earth as it is today. Also, during the life of all the apostles, including Paul. So, share us your scriptures that speak against abortion or that life does not begin at birth.

Originally posted by @whodey
The question was addressed to someone who said that they were a Catholic, not you.

I realize what you think of the Bible, and I'm equally sure that as much as you try to construe this issue as being only one of religion vs. secularism, it is not. This issue is also one of science and our humanity. I realize you think humans become humans only after the ...[text shortened]... ry waves her wand over the fetus as it exists the womb, so why not believe in the Bible as well?

Not "also".
The issue is one of Science and our Humanity.
Not "also".

Religion is out of their depth in this debate.

The Bible shouldn't be used to chart the course for humanity.
We don't drive our space programs on Aristotle's principles.
Correct ??

Originally posted by @mghrn55
Not "also".
The issue is one of Science and our Humanity.
Not "also".

Religion is out of their depth in this debate.

The Bible shouldn't be used to chart the course for humanity.
We don't drive our space programs on Aristotle's principles.
Correct ??

Actually, The ancient Greek civilization had the abortion debate in around 350 BC. At that time, Plato came to the conclusion that a fetus was not alive or a human being until "The quickening" (when the fetus began to move). This became the law on abortion for them and many other civilizations for thousands of years to come; including all of western Europe. Aristotle was a student of Plato.

Originally posted by @kingdavid403
Actually, The ancient Greek civilization had the abortion debate in around 350 BC. At that time, Plato came to the conclusion that a fetus was not alive or a human being until "The quickening" (when the fetus began to move). This became the law on abortion for them and many other civilizations for thousands of years to come. Aristotle was a student of Plato.

Also read somewhere that Greek philosophers around 2000BC contemplated space time as a concept.

But no mathematical foundation to go further.

Originally posted by @mghrn55
Religion is the intellectual laggard in debate.

Please sit in the corner.

Wearing the appropriate hat.

Originally posted by @kingdavid403
First off, a fetus is not alive, a baby, or a person, until after five or six months in the womb.
[b] but if you hurt a woman who's with child and the fetus dies you get charged w/murder. That's only the law in about 23 states in the United States. All other states it is not considered murder. However, you can be charged with a serious crime. I'm sure you could guess which 23 states those are.[/b]

And those states will probably be the first to outlaw abortions completely.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Wearing the appropriate hat.

Only because religion has no place in government.

It's in our First Amendment for a reason.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Well well well !!!
Now you are coming out with what we already knew.

Abortion debate is less about when a fetus becomes a human life and more about that abortion has created sexual liberation.

You really are frightened of humanity, aren't you ?
What's next ? Banning rock concerts because they cause young people to have sex ??

Some of us just happen to believe that humanity should not be led by those that are frightened of humanity.
Period.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

You could try having some compassion for a change.

And if you could stop presuming to tell women what to do with their own bodies, yeah, that would be great, too.

Not holding my breath on either of those, though.