ACORN going down!

Originally posted by FMF
Sorry, I was referring to your post on page 2.

Have you suffered a head injury I am unaware of ?
You have been ranting on and on about the OP and now you say "duh..Sorry, I was referring to your post on page 2"
You have a bad habit of questioning peoples honesty and integrity w/nothing to back it up.Especially mine.I suggest you divert your attention elsewhere and stop harassing me and attempting to derail every thread I post.
You are a proven liar,not I.Several here have stepped up to the plate to uncover and expose your deceitfulness in the past.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
You have been ranting on and on about the OP and now you say "duh..Sorry, I was referring to your post on page 2"

That's right. Your untruthful (or so far unsubstantiated) statement about ACORN having been found guilty of "voter fraud" is on page 2 and not on page 1.

Can you provide a valid example to substantiate your claim about ACORN?

Asking you to do so is not "derailling" this thread about ACORN.

Originally posted by FMF
That's right. Your untruthful (or so far unsubstantiated) statement about ACORN having been found guilty of "voter fraud" is on page 2 and not on page 1.

Can you provide a valid example to substantiate your claim about ACORN?

Asking you to do so is not "derailling" this thread about ACORN.

This a difinition from wiki

Electoral fraud is illegal interference with the process of an election. Acts of fraud affect vote counts to bring about a election result, whether by increasing the vote share of the favored candidate, depressing the vote share of the rival candidates or both. Also called voter fraud, the mechanisms involved include illegal voter registration, intimidation at polls and improper vote counting.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted [17] for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees [18] in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.
And, that was just Missouri.
This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:
North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found [19] at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.
Ohio — The New York Post [20] reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed [21] to testify against the organization.
Nevada — Authorities raided [22] the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.
Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms [23] filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.
Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint [24] alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl [25], whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.
Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed [26] that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned [27]the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.
Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating [28]suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted [29] by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.
Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons [7] as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.
Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received [30] around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons [31]who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.
Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff’s office [32].
Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated [33] after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.
New Mexico – The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in [34] by ACORN.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
This a difinition from wiki

Electoral fraud is illegal interference with the process of an election. Acts of fraud affect vote counts to bring about a election result, whether by increasing the vote share of the favored candidate, depressing the vote share of the rival candidates or both.[b] Also called voter fraud, the mechanisms involved incl ...[text shortened]... ed prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in [34] by ACORN.[/b]

How did the case in Nevada that you cited "affect vote counts to bring about a election result, whether by increasing the vote share of the favored candidate, depressing the vote share of the rival candidates or both"?

If you can show this, I will accept your apparently untruthful assertion on page 2 of this thread.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:...

We are discussing cases in which ACORN has been "found guilty of voter fraud" - your words - not "ongoing investigations".

Originally posted by FMF
How did the case in Nevada that you cited "affect vote counts to bring about a election result, whether by increasing the vote share of the favored candidate, depressing the vote share of the rival candidates or both"?

If you can show this, I will accept your apparently untruthful assertion on page 2 of this thread.

This is what you asked .

Can you provide a valid example to substantiate your claim about ACORN?
Which my claim was they have been found guilty of voter fraud.
I just provided that proof.Now you want to move the goal post.How is the case in Nevada voter fraud you want to know now.It is spelled out for you FMF.Falsifying registration is voter fraud. Examples,putting down the Dallas Cowboy line up,Disney characters,etc. If you are still confused,i suggest you talk to the prosecutor in the case or the judge that took the guilty plea

Originally posted by utherpendragon
This is what you asked .

[b]Can you provide a valid example to substantiate your claim about ACORN?
Which my claim was they have been found guilty of voter fraud.
I just provided that proof.Now you want to move the goal post.How is the case in Nevada voter fraud you want to know now.It is spelled out for you FMF.Falsifying registration is vo ...[text shortened]... confused,i suggest you talk to the prosecutor in the case or the judge that took the guilty plea[/b]

But you yourself said, in your own post on page 2, that ACORN "pleaded guilty to conspiracy for organizing a scheme that illegally paid workers to register new voters". It was ACORN itself who alerted authorities to the fact that, for example, Disney characters had been listed, as ACORN was legally bound to do.

Originally posted by FMF
But you yourself said, in your own post on page 2, that ACORN "pleaded guilty to conspiracy for organizing a scheme that illegally paid workers to register new voters". It was ACORN itself who alerted authorities to the fact that, for example, Disney characters had been listed, as ACORN was legally bound to do.

Where did I say Or where did the article I pasted state that ACORN alerted the authorities themselves in the case we are discussing?!

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Where did I say Or where did the article I pasted state that ACORN alerted the authorities themselves in the case we are discussing?!

Well you didn't. And I don't think it's a big mystery why you didn't.

On page 2, you stated that in the Nevada case ACORN "pleaded guilty to conspiracy for organizing [sic] a scheme that illegally paid workers to register new voters".

Now on page 4, you are claiming that in the Nevada case ACORN pleaded guilty of "putting down the Dallas Cowboy line up, Disney characters,etc."

Be clear. What is it you are saying they pleaded guilty to.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
I will accept your apology anytime...

I realize you are very passionate about this issue but it does not excuse you from the basic rules pertaining to differentiating between opinions and evidence. You clearly believe that ACORN registered M.Mouse to vote. I can see that. But what is your evidence?

You have misprepresented the Nevada case since you introduced it on page 2.

The "Dallas Cowboy line up" cannot vote in Nevada. "Disney characters" cannot vote at all, anywhere. The "registering" of these is a case of hourly paid workers defrauding ACORN - something that was bound to happen, human nature being what it is, when some target-chasing officials put disallowed incentive schemes in motion. And those officials pleaded guilty to doing that in Nevada.

"Mickey Mouse" cannot be registered to vote because he cannot vote and cannot fill in a form. In terms of the U.S. electorl system, he does not exist. It was ACORN that alerted the authorities to these shinanegans by their workers. ACORN itself was not permitted, by law, to destroy the forms in question, but instead pointed them out. Even if ACORN drove Mickey to the polls, he couldn't vote. But some deadbeat got an extra shonky $5 - or whatever - for burying Mr Mouse under a mountain of forms, the legally valid ones of which, ACORN sumbitted.

The claim that ACORN tried to register Disney characters is a lie. It's laughable too. It's pure far right blogosphere conniptionism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: I'll assume you've simply fallen for all this hook line and sinker.

Originally posted by FMF

The "Dallas Cowboy line up" cannot vote in Nevada. "Disney characters" cannot vote at all, anywhere. The "registering" of these is a case of hourly paid workers defrauding ACORN - something that was bound to happen, human nature being what it is, when some target-chasing officials put disallowed incentive schemes in motion. And those officials pleaded guilty to doing that in Nevada.
.

you don't seem to have a very high opinion of "hourly paid workers". can't they represent ACORN, too?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Go to this link to see a photo of a voter registration form signed by Mickey Mouse submitted by ACORN acccording to the St Peterburgs Times

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/10/14/acorn-registers-mickey-mouse/

www.stoptheaclu.com??

LOL!

ACORN was legally bound to submit ALL registration forms that they had been given by their workers. They then reported the Mickey Mouse ones to the authorities, whenever they found them. They HAVE to sumbit them. But I think you know this already. I'm sure you could land some clean blows on ACORN if you tried. But you seem content with this silly mickey mouse stuff.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
you don't seem to have a very high opinion of "hourly paid workers". can't they represent ACORN, too?

The central issue here is whether or not the hourly paid workers defrauded their employers.