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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 31 May '13 05:30 / 3 edits
    This story was on the front of the Mirror yesterday

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dignitas-suicide-psychiatrist-who-declared-1923305

    An OAP with Dementia was given a letter by a psychiatrist to justify them taking there life at a suicide clinic in zurich. Talk about a fools compassion, stories like this are so sad and I disagree with assisted suicide. (its called a hospice)


    To my point - what would be your advice for old folk on dealing with Dementia? I have ageing relatives and it worries me...


    These are my thoughts - Some old folk can be way to stubborn for there own good. I had a Great Aunt who was formidable in her day, but when she reached her 80s she could not cope with day to day life. But was to stubborn or thought it alien to move into a home (Ironic in her case as one of her jobs had been setting up NHS retirement homes)

    I have another Aunt who got cancer just after retiring, sad but she got over it and now lives in a retirement block where shes one of the youngest, about 150 other old folks live in the block and they get all there nurses and helps visiting them there.

    I saw a bbc documentary where some more 'senior' journalists went round homes interviewing people about there way of life.. waiting for god! The BBC can be patronising sometimes and this was a fine example. Those rich journalists are just like my Great Aunt! To stubborn to go into retirement flat or home. I tell you what is your dream home at 70 is a psychosis waiting to happen at 80. Dementia is very scary if your dealing with it alone, but actually rather comical and light in a retirement block where everyone has it!!

    Your thoughts? when should old folk realise they can't support themselves?
  2. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    31 May '13 06:07
    In 1996 both my parents were disgnosed with cancer and I was the only one in my family who was willing to devote fulltime to their care. Neither would even consider a nursing home. My father passed in 1998 and my mother passed in 2008 at the age of 83. That gave me a clear picture of what one can expect from the US healthcare system. Without going into the details, I have come to the conclusion that anyone who truly desires to end their existence has that right.
  3. 31 May '13 07:12
    Originally posted by caissad4
    In 1996 both my parents were disgnosed with cancer and I was the only one in my family who was willing to devote fulltime to their care. Neither would even consider a nursing home. My father passed in 1998 and my mother passed in 2008 at the age of 83. That gave me a clear picture of what one can expect from the US healthcare system. Without going into the ...[text shortened]... have come to the conclusion that anyone who truly desires to end their existence has that right.
    I hope to be able to carry out my own wishes when that time comes, but I hope to win a well fought game against you first.
  4. 31 May '13 07:32 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by caissad4
    In 1996 both my parents were disgnosed with cancer and I was the only one in my family who was willing to devote fulltime to their care. Neither would even consider a nursing home. My father passed in 1998 and my mother passed in 2008 at the age of 83. That gave me a clear picture of what one can expect from the US healthcare system. Without going into the ...[text shortened]... have come to the conclusion that anyone who truly desires to end their existence has that right.
    Do you think they would of been happier if they went into a home? Could they afford to? Its hard for the family too sometimes if they want to stay home. I don't support assisted suicide at all, i think it a dangerous idea as the applicants are all so vulnerable . to be cold its called a hospice and morphine it does happen but its not considered suicide. Just my thoughts.
  5. Subscriber Kewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
    31 May '13 07:46 / 1 edit
    A verbatim quote from the original Mirror story (the link is provided on the page the OP gave us):

    ##############
    The unnamed man, said to be from a wealthy professional background, was in the early stages of dementia.

    He is believed to be the first to use the clinic’s services solely because of dementia.

    And last night it was claimed his family, including his widow, backed his decision “100 per cent”.

    The man took with him a report from a psychiatrist stating he was mentally competent to choose to kill himself.

    And last night one campaigner told how the pensioner was “so grateful at the end.”

    Retired GP Michael Irwin, 81, had arranged for him to see a psychiatrist to produce a report saying he was mentally competent.

    ##############

    What is so sad about this? In the early stages of dementia, the sufferer is mentally competent, and can understand what's in store. Why is it sad that he chose not to put himself and his wife through that experience? I hope if I find myself in that position that I'm not unlucky enough to get narrow-minded judgemental bigots among my medical providers.
  6. 31 May '13 08:59
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    What is so sad about this? In the early stages of dementia, the sufferer is mentally competent, and can understand what's in store. Why is it sad that he chose not to put himself and his wife through that experience? I hope if I find myself in that position that I'm not unlucky enough to get narrow-minded judgemental bigots among my medical providers.
    I sympathise with a person's desire to meet the final stages of life in whatever way he or she deems appropriate. But I do worry that if euthanasia is normalised, there will begin to be a social pressure on ailing old people to adopt it. I can't be sure how I'll react when the time comes, but I think, death being forever, that I'll want to hold on to life as long as I can!
  7. Subscriber Kewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
    31 May '13 10:36
    That social pressure is already there. We over60s are always being told to put up with {insert whatever you like here} because only the young have a right to exist. The strong and the rich will always be able to get what they want, even when it comes to an easy death. It's the poor and weak who have to suffer the slow agonising painful deaths. We had this with abortion 30 years ago, and most civilised countries have worked that out. Back then it was men trying to make the rules for women, now it's the young trying to make the rules for the old.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    31 May '13 17:32
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    That social pressure is already there. We over60s are always being told to put up with {insert whatever you like here} because only the young have a right to exist. The strong and the rich will always be able to get what they want, even when it comes to an easy death. It's the poor and weak who have to suffer the slow agonising painful deaths. We had this ...[text shortened]... n trying to make the rules for women, now it's the young trying to make the rules for the old.
    You look kinda like Bert from Sesame Street
  9. 31 May '13 17:47 / 1 edit
    Advice?

    Make sure you exercise.
    Limit your sugar intake.(even in the form of carbs)
    Take your anti-oxidants such as alpha lipoic acid and Curcumin as well as fish oil.
    Make sure you get your coq10, l carnetine, magensium and ribose for energy and heart health.

    There are some brain specific supplements, one that may parents like and seems to be working for my mother in law is called prevagen.

    Learning new things helps too. Make sure you keep your mind and body active.
  10. 01 Jun '13 00:03 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    That social pressure is already there. We over60s are always being told to put up with {insert whatever you like here} because only the young have a right to exist. The strong and the rich will always be able to get what they want, even when it comes to an easy death. It's the poor and weak who have to suffer the slow agonising painful deaths. We had this ...[text shortened]... n trying to make the rules for women, now it's the young trying to make the rules for the old.
    I do hate it when old folk feel like burdens, retirement is a hard earned thing, I respect that. But thats not a reason to cling onto your house into your 80s. Its more stress then most can handle - even if you can easily afford a grand house a retirement block is better (both?)

    My aunt is in a retirement block of flats not a 'home' as such but she could live there til 107 and its easy to get care workers. Some people can be stubborn and I think the story in the OP is a sad example.
  11. 01 Jun '13 00:13
    Originally posted by caissad4
    In 1996 both my parents were disgnosed with cancer and I was the only one in my family who was willing to devote fulltime to their care. Neither would even consider a nursing home. My father passed in 1998 and my mother passed in 2008 at the age of 83. That gave me a clear picture of what one can expect from the US healthcare system. Without going into the ...[text shortened]... have come to the conclusion that anyone who truly desires to end their existence has that right.
    Agreed. My parents died at age 80 some 16 years ago, very suddenly. I can't imagine them hanging on in a vegetative state.
  12. 01 Jun '13 00:15
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    I sympathise with a person's desire to meet the final stages of life in whatever way he or she deems appropriate. But I do worry that if euthanasia is normalised, there will begin to be a social pressure on ailing old people to adopt it. I can't be sure how I'll react when the time comes, but I think, death being forever, that I'll want to hold on to life as long as I can!
    There is a lot of intentional confusion between euthanasia and assisted suicide. One of course involves choice, and the other doesn't.
  13. 01 Jun '13 00:35
    Originally posted by normbenign
    There is a lot of intentional confusion between euthanasia and assisted suicide. One of course involves choice, and the other doesn't.
    I think people who ask for it either need a hospice where it is basically there, or anti depressants, and need to be told so.

    I'm not in there shoes so its not my choice. Bur euthanasia could bring unfair pressure on some.
  14. 01 Jun '13 02:42
    I have two aunts with Alzheimer's, and their husbands are taking care of them at the moment. All of the people are in their 80s, as is my father (my stepmother is in her early 90s). I think they all have the right to live where they choose as long as they can remain independent. When they can't, if they can afford health care visitors, they should take advantage of that. I certainly don't want someone telling me that I can't live where I want to, just because they think it may be problematic at some future point. Chances are that most people will become sick or injured in the future; we don't put them in the hospital now so that they have a bed already when they need it.

    If I were diagnosed with Alzheimer's (one of the aunts is a biological relative), I would certainly want to end my life at a point where I still had some say and occasional coherence. I wouldn't want an added decade of fear and anger and confusion, but that's me.

    I also believe that "old folk" only need our advice when it's actually crucial -- a parent cannot drive safely and needs to give up the car keys rather than endanger others.
  15. 01 Jun '13 05:44 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Sahuaro
    I have two aunts with Alzheimer's, and their husbands are taking care of them at the moment. All of the people are in their 80s, as is my father (my stepmother is in her early 90s). I think they all have the right to live where they choose as long as they can remain independent. When they can't, if they can afford health care visitors, they should take ad nt cannot drive safely and needs to give up the car keys rather than endanger others.
    I've seen there are some old people who think they are too... ? good? independant? to move into a home or retirement flats and it costs them a lot more when they are forced to move into a care home - Where as those who move into retirement flats have much more fun and can get dementia / alzheimers / parkinsons and not feel like they need to end there life at all as there flat is easy to run and its easy to get help. I wonder if having too much money and clinging onto a house can make old age worse?