Originally posted by Dace AceDo I need to read Mein Kampf to know that it's a pile of garbage?
Have read the book?
You have stated the exact opposite of what she advocates. She advocates the moral right to help oneself to the fruits of "your own" labor, which is the very essence of capitalism. Not the labor of others. In the book, the great minds and managers step aside to allow those with only "needs", those that do help themselves with the fr ...[text shortened]... if all governments do is heap on more taxes. Is that your answer to helping out society?
All the wealth that has ever existed has been created by the labor of the working class. All the people toiling in the factories and mines over the years are the ones who built this nation. But it is the robber barons who jump in to reap the benefits and take all the credit. I say good riddance to the lot of your whining corporate thieves. Let them all go overseas. In the long run we'd be better off without them. When they're all replaced by worker owned and operated industries, then you will be able to say that no one is making a living from the fruits of another's labor.
Originally posted by rwingettI'd say it's incontrovertible who the biggest loser is since you're pining away for a social and economic system that enslave and kills people and was fully discredited...last century. Your life must really suck if the best you can hope for is the collapse of the current economy which has liberated more people from poverty and toil and provides more jobs and goods and services to more people than at any time in the history of the world. If it were not for the entrepreneurs or other great risk takers, who do you think would open those factories and mines in the first place?
Do I need to read Mein Kampf to know that it's a pile of garbage?
All the wealth that has ever existed has been created by the labor of the working class. All the people toiling in the factories and mines over the years are the ones who built this nation. But it is the robber barons who jump in to reap the benefits and take all the credit. I say g ...[text shortened]... n you will be able to say that no one is making a living from the fruits of another's labor.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterI am not advocating a communistic system within the confines of this thread. I would be perfectly happy to settle for a market economy with worker owned businesses. Maybe something like Proudhon's Mutualism. So you can save all your elitist propaganda.
I'd say it's incontrovertible who the biggest loser is since you're pining away for a social and economic system that enslave and kills people and was fully discredited...last century. Your life must really suck if the best you can hope for is the collapse of the current economy which has liberated more people from poverty and toil and provides m ...[text shortened]... great risk takers, who do you think would open those factories and mines in the first place?
Originally posted by rwingettI truely wish you would read the book. Open you mind and take a glance from the other side. I am not asking you to change your views or your life, just to look at something from a different angle once in a while. I am sure you do not fear looking at an issue from different points of view, is it?
Do I need to read Mein Kampf to know that it's a pile of garbage?
All the wealth that has ever existed has been created by the labor of the working class. All the people toiling in the factories and mines over the years are the ones who built this nation. But it is the robber barons who jump in to reap the benefits and take all the credit. I say g ...[text shortened]... n you will be able to say that no one is making a living from the fruits of another's labor.
I hate the things Hitler & Stalin did, but I do read about it to learn why they did them. I feel knowing the enemy is more important than knowing your friends.
Originally posted by Dace AceLet me know when you've read the collected works of Emma Goldman. When you're willing to do that, then maybe I'll take you up on your offer.
I truely wish you would read the book. Open you mind and take a glance from the other side. I am not asking you to change your views or your life, just to look at something from a different angle once in a while. I am sure you do not fear looking at an issue from different points of view, is it?
I hate the things Hitler & Stalin did, but I do read abo ...[text shortened]... learn why they did them. I feel knowing the enemy is more important than knowing your friends.
Originally posted by rwingettEmma Goldman, sure, why not. She looks interesting. Which do you recommend? If I only read one, which should it be?
Let me know when you've read the collected works of Emma Goldman. When you're willing to do that, then maybe I'll take you up on your offer.
Anarchism and Other Essays. 1910.
The Social Significance of the Modern Drama. 1914.
My Disillusionment in Russia. 1923.
My Further Disillusionment in Russia. 1924.
Living My Life. 1931.
Originally posted by Dace AceSince her works are short, and Rand's are ponderously long, you have to read them all. Twice.
Emma Goldman, sure, why not. She looks interesting. Which do you recommend? If I only read one, which should it be?
Anarchism and Other Essays. 1910.
The Social Significance of the Modern Drama. 1914.
My Disillusionment in Russia. 1923.
My Further Disillusionment in Russia. 1924.
Living My Life. 1931.
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Originally posted by der schwarze RitterTossing out "I guess that's how the communists would critique her books" as a response to "Ayn Rand's books and philosophy appeal to those who seek to remain firmly entrenched in juvenile self-centeredness" is a red herring. It's a child's ploy.
It would help if you had read any of the great woman's works before you summarily dismiss them based upon remarks from Redmike or a passage in Falsipedia. Also, you'd know that she always cast communists, socialists, New Dealers, Democrats, etc., as the villains in her stories because she had experienced first hand what it means to live by "each according to his own needs."
As is "It would help if you had read any of the great woman's works before you summarily dismiss them based upon remarks from Redmike or a passage in Falsipedia". I've read enough of Rand to get an idea of how she views the world. It's a juvenile view that appeals to juveniles.
Originally posted by Dace AceThe book assumed one fact not in evidence: that no one would ever give their talents away for free, for the good of the whole. The "everything has a price" and "personal greed drives us all" are two yenets that Rand accepts as fact. I do not.
I just finished reading this great book by Ayn Rand, and was curious on other folk’s opinion of this book.
It seems that many countries are falling into the trap of just worrying about serving peoples needs, at the cost of burdening or destroying the industrial strength that keeps a nation running.
For a book that was written in the 1950's, it is incredible on how keenly it applies to today’s societies.
Originally posted by PinkFloydHave you been out of the house lately?
The book assumed one fact not in evidence: that no one would ever give their talents away for free, for the good of the whole. The "everything has a price" and "personal greed drives us all" are two yenets that Rand accepts as fact. I do not.
Granny.
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Originally posted by rwingettShe does not advocate what you say, nor is "helping oneself to the fruits of someone else's labor" capitalism.
She is a loser because she concocted a ridiculous "philosophy." A "philosophy" that specifically advocates the moral right to help oneself to the fruits of someone else's labor, which is the very essence of capitalism. Whatever else she did is irrelevant.
If you're going to assert something like this, then please give us some reference where it exists in her work.
Not all Rands work is 'ponderously' long, before reading this list please take a firm grip on the top of your head with both hands, it's liable to blow your mind.
The first collection of bite size essays (not all by Rand) to read is:
"Philosophy: Who needs it." The essay by the same title makes no judgement on which philosophy you should follow, just stresses the importance of examining, giving form and consistency to ones own philosophy of life. I think this is also the one with an essay on racism, along the lines of: Racism, like other forms of collectivism is the quest for the unearned. Obviously I can't sum it in one sentence, but if ponderousity is your problem its actually only a few pages long.
Next you might like to try "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" or "The Virtue of Selfishness" If you've manged to stop your head exploding let me explain that I approached the book with the same notion of selfishness that you and many others have exhibited here, the same cynicism, the same doubts. For someone writing books in a second language (an achievement in itself) the essays are concise and direct, utterly to the point, the antithesis of ponderous.