Watched Morgan Spurlock on TV last night- the guy who wrote 'Supersize Me'. This time, instaed of eating junk food for 30 days, he and his wife attempted to live on the minimum wage for 30 days. They chose Columbus, Ohio as the place to do it.
What I want to know is - how typical are situations like this? I mean, I lived with Americans a few years ago as a student in Holland and didn't really pick up on anything cold or uncaring about them. However, the picture painted by Spurlock is of a cold and uncaring society, especially if you are unfortunate enough to be born poor. I especially refer to the minimum wage situation - one guy said how his hourly rate was now less than it was when he worked for General Motors over a quarter of a century ago!!! To defend this, some Senator came on saying if the rate was increased it would lead to job losses as labour would become too expensive for some businesses.
The end result is a constant cycle of poverty and despair (Spurlock injured his wrist doing manual labour during the programme and decided it was too expensive to seek treatment. Finally desperation led him to seek medical attention at a huge cost relative to his minimum wage income).
How widespread is this? Low wages, little medical provision if you can't afford it, etc. No way out, it seems.
So, to those who actually live in America, are we being brainwashed by guys like Spurlock and, previously, Michael Moore? I am on the fence here and open to opinions - especially from those who actually live in the USA. The picture painted is a scary one - the creation and perpetuation of a vast underclass with little to aspire to, a medical system that operates according to the size of your wallet, and a ruling authority that doesn't seem to care anyway.(And, of course, lots of guns available for those who want to use them).
Sounds apocalyptic but, never really having been there , is it?
(PS - this is not some surreptitious anti-American rant. Internet sites like this give the opportunity for 'normal' people to ask other 'normal' people around the world if the stories from one's own media are true. Please see it that way.)
That is typical capitalism. I dont understand why you keep saying 'never been there'. Surely Britain is not that different? Is health care free in Britain?
A minimum wage does affect unemployment and high spending on social sevices does lead to laziness. Similarly strict capitalism leads to a fairly large class of poor.
However most americans that call themselves poor still have some form of housing, eat regular meals and may even have tv and a car. Where I come from, Zambia, many people die every year from starvation due to poverty.
Originally posted by twhiteheadWe heard all the horror stories here about the supposed effects of the minimum wage here before it was introduced a few years ago. The CBI (the employer's lobby group) said it would decimate jobs etc etc.
A minimum wage does affect unemployment and high spending on social sevices does lead to laziness. Similarly strict capitalism leads to a fairly large class of poor.
It didn't.
There wasn't even a blip in the employment stats.
Similarly, are you seriously saying high spending on social services leads to laziness? How do you come up with that wee gem?
As someone who has lived it, I can assure you that Spurlock's portrayal of life on minimum wage is accurate. His experience was actually somewhat more positive than it could have been. Consider for a moment a single mother (instead of husband and wife without children, each working in this case) on pay that is truly minimum wage (you will note that the Spurlocks managed to snag jobs for slightly above the legal minimum).
Of course, poverty in America is absolutely lavish compared to most countries.
-JC
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't want this to turn into ''one country vs USA'', but the British system of health provision is very different from what I saw on TV. If I injure myself I go to the doctor. No debate about whether its affordable or not. I've been paying national insurance for over 20 years. That way, everyone (in theory) participates in the system and can expect (in theory) equal treatment by it, regardless of who pays what.
That is typical capitalism. I dont understand why you keep saying 'never been there'. Surely Britain is not that different? Is health care free in Britain?
A minimum wage does affect unemployment and high spending on social sevices does lead to laziness. Similarly strict capitalism leads to a fairly large class of poor.
However most americans that call ...[text shortened]... r. Where I come from, Zambia, many people die every year from starvation due to poverty.Briyta
The British NHS is far from Capitalist, at least the underlying principle of it is. If you, as a Zambian, set foot in Britain and promptly keel over on the airport tarmac, you will be taken to hospital, no questions asked. Who pays for that? I do, as does every other person in the UK. Do I mind? Not at all.
Originally posted by PeterSwan2To be fair, no one can be turned away from an emergency room in the U.S. You might wait 9 hours to be seen if it's flu season in New Orleans (boy was that fun), but you will get treated whether you can pay for it or not.
I don't want this to turn into ''one country vs USA'', but the British system of health provision is very different from what I saw on TV. If I injure myself I go to the doctor. No debate about whether its affordable or not. I've been paying national insurance for over 20 years. That way, everyone (in theory) participates in the system and can expect (in ...[text shortened]... ked. Who pays for that? I do, as does every other person in the UK. Do I mind? Not at all.
Of course, you WILL be billed. If you do not pay in a timely manner you will be referred to collection agencies... etc and so forth.
-JC
I live in the United States. I don't know a single person that is actually being paid minimum wage.
Even high school students with no experience and no skills earn more than that in this area.
I'm sure there are parts of the country where this may not be true.
My experience has been that the folks who do "documentaries" usually have an agenda.
Originally posted by monster truckAccording to Current Population Survery estimates for 2002, some 72.7 million American workers were paid at hourly rates, representing 59.6 percent of all wage and salary workers.1 Of those paid by the hour, about 570,000 were reported earning exactly $5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage, and another 1.6 million were reported with wages below the minimum.2 Together, these 2.2 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 3.0 percent of all hourly-paid workers.
I live in the United States. I don't know a single person that is actually being paid minimum wage.
Even high school students with no experience and no skills earn more than that in this area.
I'm sure there are parts of the country where this may not be true.
My experience has been that the folks who do "documentaries" usually have an agenda.
http://www.stats.bls.gov/cps/minwage2002.htm
2002 was the last data I could find; the mininmum wage has been increased since then, so I suspect the number of people making minimum wage or less (there are a number of exemptions as the site points out) is undoubtedly higher.
Originally posted by monster truckMy experience is that the folks who extrapolate generalized knowledge based on limited personal experience have their own agenda.
I live in the United States. I don't know a single person that is actually being paid minimum wage.
Even high school students with no experience and no skills earn more than that in this area.
I'm sure there are parts of the country where this may not be true.
My experience has been that the folks who do "documentaries" usually have an agenda.
-JC
My family's always struggled for money. At the moment, my parents are experiencing financial growth and doing well and supporting me since I can't find a job. This is however mostly my fault as I am not putting in the time looking that I should be. I had a little job for a while but my friend couldn't afford to keep paying me; he actually never did and he owes me a few thousand bucks. I had appendicitis once and went to the hospital. They took care of it and their financial department cancelled the charges since I don't have any money. There is also the Los Angeles Free Clinic which gives free medical care to anyone who shows up. I got my degree with loans (some grants when I had a good GPA) and can now interview for decent jobs at about $30,000+/year, though I haven't landed one yet.
However, I am certainly not on the bottom.
I live in chicago. When I tried to find a job last summer it was very difficult esspecially since i had no work experience but i eventually found one. I made 7 dollers an hour. minimum wage in illinois is $6.50 i believe.
I think we could treat our young and poor better, but what are you going to do.
I think limiting imigration would have a better effect since it would be easier to find work and employers would have to pay higher wages to attract employees.
Graduated High School, went in the Army, got out of the Army, Drove Company trucks and saved my money, Bought me a truck and now gross $180,000.00 a year. Raised 9 kids without Government assistance, putting two through college along with the wife who is also a freshman in college. If I can do it anybody else can too. Just takes determination and a good work ethic.
One of things about our government is that politicians are influenced by lobbyists, They come and go, but the lobbyists remain...their goal is to maximize corporate profits at the expense of the taxpayer.
the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and those in between get squeezed more and more. the poor use emergency rooms in hospitals for routine medical care, ers are overwhelmed.
we love our freedoms too much to rock the boat though. The screwed up stories i could tell you!