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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member yo its me
    watch the acid...
    15 Dec '09 00:35
    Hang on don't leave, this one's different. I just watched the film 'The Age Of Stupid' and it raised an interesting thought; The Nazi's came to power because largly people didn't question what their ideas actaully were and went along with the crowd. Global warming and consumerisim, the waste of oil, the destroying of countries that once were rich in resources it's a movement that looked at piece by piece we disagree with but on the whole we follow the crowd about.

    For example poundland and I buy from that shop, it fills it's shelves with plastic stuff (made from oil, I know you knew that I'm just spelling it out) that has been made by children who are missing out on their childhood so they can earn. The things are cheap and don't last five minutes, they go back to their original country to live in a land fill. It's the same with stuff from Tesco it's not made any differently just costs more and maybe with stronger plastic.

    So, just as the people who voted for Hitler and his National Socialist German Workers' party, didn't kill, they made it posiable for his ideas to become reality. Is it true that we, you and I, who are not stopping the consumerisim chain of events are indirectly killing those effected?
  2. 15 Dec '09 05:33
    let's see, for AGW alarmists we have all these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Ad_hominem
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Ad_nauseam
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Appeal_to_authority
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Appeal_to_fear
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Appeal_to_prejudice
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Beautiful_people
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Bandwagon
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Big_Lie
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Black-and-white_fallacy
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Common_man
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Demonizing_the_enemy
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Direct_order
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Disinformation
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Euphoria
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Flag-waving
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Glittering_generalities
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Half-truth
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Intentional_vagueness
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Labeling
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Name-calling
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Obtain_disapproval_or_Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Oversimplification
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Quotes_out_of_context
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Rationalization
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Red_herring
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Repetition
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Scapegoating
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Slogans
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Stereotyping
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Testimonial
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Transfer
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Unstated_assumption
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Virtue_words
  3. 15 Dec '09 05:33 / 1 edit
    great jumpin' jehosaphat! the AGW alarmists hit the entire wikipedia list! they must've hired ad agencies!
  4. 15 Dec '09 06:06
    Originally posted by yo its me
    Is it true that we, you and I, who are not stopping the consumerisim chain of events are indirectly killing those effected?
    Of course! If we know where and how a product is made, what'll happen once it's trashed, we're
    wholly and completely responsible as consumers, since the damn thing is only made for our
    purchasing needs in the first place.

    We've only just conveniently forgotten the full meaning of the word responsibility, in particular as it
    relates to our own actions. It helps if you're gonna help destroy half the world, if you can do it with a
    sort of innocent naïvity, like: "Duh, wha'you mean i'm responsible?.. uh... i not the one making these
    things, and besides... it's not like i'm the only one buying them... uh... i have little money you know?..
    and i sort my trash and everything... isn't that enough?.. uh... can I go now?...".
  5. 15 Dec '09 14:43
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    great jumpin' jehosaphat! the AGW alarmists hit the entire wikipedia list! they must've hired ad agencies!
    Same tactics have been used by the global warming deniers -- maybe both sides are using the same ad agencies?
  6. 15 Dec '09 14:50
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    Of course! If we know where and how a product is made, what'll happen once it's trashed, we're
    wholly and completely responsible as consumers, since the damn thing is only made for our
    purchasing needs in the first place.

    We've only just conveniently forgotten the full meaning of the word responsibility, in particular as it
    relates to our own actions ...[text shortened]...
    and i sort my trash and everything... isn't that enough?.. uh... can I go now?...".
    The problem is that for EVERY product or service you can buy, there's likely to be something involved that harms the environment, employs someone unfairly, supports some unsavory tyrant, wastes valuable resources, supports drug dealers, or helps the Jonas Brothers sell concert tickets.

    How does one become a truly responsible consumer without having to forswear all purchases?
  7. 15 Dec '09 17:21
    Originally posted by yo its me
    Hang on don't leave, this one's different. I just watched the film 'The Age Of Stupid' and it raised an interesting thought; The Nazi's came to power because largly people didn't question what their ideas actaully were and went along with the crowd. Global warming and consumerisim, the waste of oil, the destroying of countries that once were rich in resour ...[text shortened]... t stopping the consumerisim chain of events are indirectly killing those effected?
    Indeed, but global warming is only one of many dangerous trends resulting not just from runaway consumerism, but from the limited earth resources available to an ever-growing human population.

    There will unfortunately always be the naysayers who forever confuse opinion with thought and reason. If they get their little feelings hurt in order that the perils be righted, then so be it.
  8. Standard member Scheel
    <blank>
    15 Dec '09 18:40
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    The problem is that for EVERY product or service you can buy, there's likely to be something involved that harms the environment, employs someone unfairly, supports some unsavory tyrant, wastes valuable resources, supports drug dealers, or helps the Jonas Brothers sell concert tickets.

    How does one become a truly responsible consumer without having to forswear all purchases?
    How about starting somewhere.
    - like commiting to a binding agreement in Copenhagen if you are a state.
    - like buying local and more green food, or driving a hybrid car if you are a person.

    If you give up, because it's to difficult, then failure is assured ?
  9. Standard member yo its me
    watch the acid...
    15 Dec '09 19:44
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    great jumpin' jehosaphat! the AGW alarmists hit the entire wikipedia list! they must've hired ad agencies!
    Anthropogenic Global Warming is something you don't think is real then? Do you think it's only natural accurances?
    http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/005889.html
    'A group of 3,146 earth scientists surveyed around the world overwhelmingly agree that in the past 200-plus years, mean global temperatures have been rising, and that human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures.'
  10. Standard member yo its me
    watch the acid...
    15 Dec '09 19:57
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    The problem is that for EVERY product or service you can buy, there's likely to be something involved that harms the environment, employs someone unfairly, supports some unsavory tyrant, wastes valuable resources, supports drug dealers, or helps the Jonas Brothers sell concert tickets.

    How does one become a truly responsible consumer without having to forswear all purchases?
    Ha! Jonas Brothers, it's just the way they roll you know!

    Perhaps we can't become truly responsible consumers without the help of our comunity, without complete change. There was a programme a while ago of a family who attempted to only buy products made in the UK, they found it impossiable. What about the Greens idea of county currency, no banks no suppermarkets, local produce etc. Also not being part of the throw away society, using things untill they don't work anymore would reduce waste at least a bit. Nappies, using real nappies instead of disposiable ones. There must be countless small things that would help but on a huge scale what needs to be done is industral change, for example (on the film again) the oil company (shell) were burning off the gas becasue it wasn't worth the pipes to channel it into the homes for the locals to use.
  11. 16 Dec '09 09:37
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    The problem is that for EVERY product or service you can buy, there's likely to be something involved that harms the environment, employs someone unfairly, supports some unsavory tyrant, wastes valuable resources, supports drug dealers, or helps the Jonas Brothers sell concert tickets.

    How does one become a truly responsible consumer without having to forswear all purchases?
    It's really quite simple. If you're not as persistent as I am, you can choose local producers as much
    as possible, and never buy from a manufacturer that has been exposed in the press as using
    questionable methods of production. That would go a long way in showing producers that certain
    methods aren't acceptable.

    Also, buying food, clothes, furniture and so on from local producers help promote the economy in
    your own geographical part of the world, and it gives you some level of insight into how the
    production really takes place.

    For things that can't be found locally you'll just have to trust the authorities and investigative
    journalists to do their jobs right. The only other option is to start asking questions yourself, which
    isn't really a bad thing you know? No one can be on top of things all the time, but it doesn't hurt to
    think critically when suddenly, magically a new brand of shoes appear with a price tag far below
    the same quality of shoes from its competitors. Gee, I wonder how that's even possible?

    Of course, you can't trust the price tag alone. That would be stupid. As soon as the rotten eggs of
    manufacturing realise that: "Hey, we sell more if we raise the price tag!", they'll make more profit
    and your guilt as a consumer is even bigger. That should suck big time; wanting to do something to
    better the conditions in the world and end up actively spilling misery into people's lives. HA! Talk
    about irony.