@AverageJoe1 saidIt's not whether people seamlessly fit in and look the part. I mean you constantly present yourself as having wisdom and common sense, and yet in the most fundamental way, you seem unable to accord every person the right to be who they would prefer to be, free of your judgement to accord them those rights.
All due respects, this makes no sense. You have got to agree that if you see a guy wearing a dress on the other side of the street in the front yard, that you would never under any circumstances consider him, in any way or venue, to be a woman.
So that being established, what would change your mind when you came around to the back yard to meet me for a friendly hamburger?
Please be fair, not argumentative.
@AverageJoe1 saidAre you really so stupid that you don't know the difference between a transvestite and a transgender person?
All due respects, this makes no sense. You have got to agree that if you see a guy wearing a dress on the other side of the street in the front yard, that you would never under any circumstances consider him, in any way or venue, to be a woman.
So that being established, what would change your mind when you came around to the back yard to meet me for a friendly hamburger?
Please be fair, not argumentative.
@AverageJoe1 saidThe transphobia is strong in these ones.
I guess they don't think of that? What else could be their problem , to not get it....they just don't get it. Are they daft, lacking basic judgement, acumen??
Never fail to notice the common threads among them. The very definition of 'lockstep', emulating each other. It would be so refreshing if just oe of them could say, a man dressed as a woman is a still a man. ...[text shortened]... sts above, all ad hominem with no policy substance. They could be more interesting one would think.
@AverageJoe1 saidIf this is such a world-shattering problem, perhaps you can answer me this: how many transgenders have played NCAA women's basketball, ever? And how many have played in the WNBA, ever?
I guess they don't think of that? What else could be their problem , to not get it....they just don't get it. Are they daft, lacking basic judgement, acumen??
Never fail to notice the common threads among them. The very definition of 'lockstep', emulating each other. It would be so refreshing if just oe of them could say, a man dressed as a woman is a still a man. ...[text shortened]... sts above, all ad hominem with no policy substance. They could be more interesting one would think.
It's okay, take your time, I want you to get the right answers and then reflect on what this means for your fear factory.
@no1marauder saidDon't you think it should be up to the sportswomen themselves, rather than the organizations which control them? And this is an example of how words may be open to misinterpretation or misrepresentation; I didn't say that anything was 'always' the case. Put me in a ring with any trained female boxer and they would I'm sure knock six bells out of me, because I'm not a trained boxer, so specific examples aren't really helpful in trying to establish general principles.
Such a determination should be up to the relevant sports organizations BUT it simply isn't true that transgender girls/women always have some innate athletic advantage over cisgender ones. Athletic ability varies by individuals; send the average transgender woman to play a one on one game against Caitlin Clark and they'd get massacred.
And despite the nonsense being p ...[text shortened]... titions, there isn't a single verified case where this happened and the result was allowed to stand.
And of course in this respect it isn't enough to 'say' that you are transgender, such things can be proved, and must be proved before any serious discussion can even begin on the subject.
@Indonesia-Phil saidSports organizations are the ones who hold these competitions and make the rules for them. I have played in many competitions in various sports and games and not once were the majority of players permitted to decide who would be eligible to compete in them.
Don't you think it should be up to the sportswomen themselves, rather than the organizations which control them? And this is an example of how words may be open to misinterpretation or misrepresentation; I didn't say that anything was 'always' the case. Put me in a ring with any trained female boxer and they would I'm sure knock six bells out of me, because I'm not a t ...[text shortened]... hings can be proved, and must be proved before any serious discussion can even begin on the subject.
If you or anyone can point to any instance where a boy/man simply claimed to be transgender so they could win a girls/women sporting event, I'm all ears. Many of the competitions which right wingers have complained about, like the fencing tournament a few months ago, had specific rules requiring at least a year of hormone suppression therapy.
@no1marauder saidI'm sure you're right, and I'm not disputing who it is who makes the rules, I merely raise the question as to who should make the rules. As I'm sure you understand, my primary concern would always be for the rights of the people (women in this case) who partake of the sports in question. I daresay this is an issue which has never arisen before in sporting history, and it takes a bit of sorting out.
Sports organizations are the ones who hold these competitions and make the rules for them. I have played in many competitions in various sports and games and not once were the majority of players permitted to decide who would be eligible to compete in them.
If you or anyone can point to any instance where a boy/man simply claimed to be transgender so they could win a ...[text shortened]... ament a few months ago, had specific rules requiring at least a year of hormone suppression therapy.
Nor am I claiming that 'abuses' actually happen, I merely say that safeguards should be put in place to ensure that they don't, prevention always being better than cure. If girls or women never find themselves disadvantaged due to the present rise in gender reorientation, and never do find themselves so disadvantaged, then all is well, and you and I have no argument.
@Indonesia-Phil saidWhat if men say that THEY want equal treatment and go into hormone therapy?
These are at once complex and simple issues, which make them complicated....Speaking as someone who would be generally regarded as a 'libtard' by certain members of our community, I will attempt to simplify.
The complexity arises firstly out of the definition of gender; our own (UK) Prime Minister found himself in hot water with the 'feminist movement', and famousl ...[text shortened]... hts of women share common ground.
And now I await the brickbats....Go easy on me, this is tricky.
Your first para....def of gender. Man and Woman.
2nd para. Everyone struggles for something. It is their own business. These people who are not happy with their god-given bodies do what they do, I don't care, but it obviously, obviously, has nothing to do with us, and why would we write about their struggle, while we do our struggle, and we do not burden our struggle on other people. Indonesia, that is not complicated.
The feminist movement is their movement. It should not affect us as we have those own struggles that I mention. I will struggle to lay bricks at my church. If they bother me with their struggle, I cannot do my struggle. I do not burden them with my church.
They struggle for equality. I question what they think they should have that other people have. All seem equal to me. They do girl stuff, we fight tigers, and so on. Do they want to fight tigers, become men? So be it, but their doing so is their business, not ours. Geez/.
Their hormone treatment has nothing to do with me. Turn this around. Today 30% of the men say they want equal treatment ,and go have surgery so they can do girl things. Fine let them. Should we bother the real girls with this? They have nothing to do with our wanting to be girly.
I just do not get it. Can common sense just be too much???
@kmax87 saidBut I am saying that indeed they are free to do what they want to do. Of course. I am saying that they should not bother other people with it. I preach independence, not dependence.
It's not whether people seamlessly fit in and look the part. I mean you constantly present yourself as having wisdom and common sense, and yet in the most fundamental way, you seem unable to accord every person the right to be who they would prefer to be, free of your judgement to accord them those rights.
You make me ask.......if some man wants the freedom to swim in a girls meet and 'bother' (big time, ruin their lives) the girls, tell us....is that right?
Kmax? Free to ruin other's lives?
@no1marauder saidI know the diff. You just throw that sentence out, it has nothing to do with anything in these discussions. You have said it is acceptable for a guy who keeps his junk but considers himself a woman to be a woman.
Are you really so stupid that you don't know the difference between a transvestite and a transgender person?
Do you think that rather than hammering me with simple questions like the above, that it would be more interesting to know how a person, like you, will accept the man as a woman if he says he is a woman?
@no1marauder saidThe question on the table since day one.....follow me Marauder...is: Do YOU think that a boy should walk in the door of the gym at a girl's swim meet *** and demand of them to be accepted to compete?
Sports organizations are the ones who hold these competitions and make the rules for them. I have played in many competitions in various sports and games and not once were the majority of players permitted to decide who would be eligible to compete in them.
If you or anyone can point to any instance where a boy/man simply claimed to be transgender so they could win a ...[text shortened]... ament a few months ago, had specific rules requiring at least a year of hormone suppression therapy.
***. It could be 8 girls in a city park pool, it could be an Olympic event, or anything in between, with or without officials officiating.
If your answer includes the word tran, you are avoiding the question. In the legal world, you are so noted.
@no1marauder saidIf a sports organization holds an event, Marauder is correct that they make any and all rules, even dogs can be allowed to race or compete. There is not discussion, I am sure we all agree. I did NOT KNOW that that is the issue.
Sports organizations are the ones who hold these competitions and make the rules for them. I have played in many competitions in various sports and games and not once were the majority of players permitted to decide who would be eligible to compete in them.
If you or anyone can point to any instance where a boy/man simply claimed to be transgender so they could win a ...[text shortened]... ament a few months ago, had specific rules requiring at least a year of hormone suppression therapy.
My discussions are about people deciding among themselves. Marauder appears to put a lot of weight on having supervision of some sort. He can have at it, as he avoids 'the question on the table' and rants like Sonhouse on his obsessive tran subjects. I don't care about tran subjects, that is their struggle. I have a struggle, I am going to lay bricks at the church.
@no1marauder saidBut there is no sport ograniation at the city park where the girls are going to have a race.
Such a determination should be up to the relevant sports organizations BUT it simply isn't true that transgender girls/women always have some innate athletic advantage over cisgender ones. Athletic ability varies by individuals; send the average transgender woman to play a one on one game against Caitlin Clark and they'd get massacred.
And despite the nonsense being p ...[text shortened]... titions, there isn't a single verified case where this happened and the result was allowed to stand.
Give it up Maruader.
@no1marauder saidAre you and Indoneia talking about organizations?
Sports organizations are the ones who hold these competitions and make the rules for them. I have played in many competitions in various sports and games and not once were the majority of players permitted to decide who would be eligible to compete in them.
If you or anyone can point to any instance where a boy/man simply claimed to be transgender so they could win a ...[text shortened]... ament a few months ago, had specific rules requiring at least a year of hormone suppression therapy.