@joe-shmo said"The hospitals still have to procure money and justify the services rendered! "
The hospitals still have to procure money and justify the services rendered! There will still be people handling insurance claims- they will just be government people! And the claims are going to substantially increase because you are increasing the demand ( insuring more people ).
Yes, and? What's your point.
"There will still be people handling insurance claims- they will just be government people!"
What claims. You are paying taxes. You are insured. Wtf are you talking about. What do you think, there is a requirement in a healthcare system to have someone find reasons to deny coverage? Do you have any idea how healthcare in other countries work or you can't conceive that other people might do things better than americans? Are you that fukin arrogant?
"And the claims are going to substantially increase because you are increasing the demand ( insuring more people )."
That's the bloody point. Get everyone covered.
@kevcvs57 saidThe hospitals are paid by the insurance companies! What don't you understand about this? The hospitals open claims to the insurance companies saying joe needs operation "x", and it is market value is $y. And the insurance company says we'll give you $z ( less than $y ). None of that is going to change! Claims are still going to be made, but it will be the government that says we are going to give you $z.
“ The government isn't reinventing healthcare...they are going to take it over. It will function in the same way. Claims still processing....”
Yeah that’s just not true though is it, what claims? claiming for what? Obviously doctors etc will still need paid.
It’s clear you have no idea how a National Health Service functions or operates.
@joe-shmo said"The hospitals are paid by the insurance companies!"
The hospitals are paid by the insurance companies! What don't you understand about this? The hospitals open claims to the insurance companies saying joe needs operation "x", and it is market value is $y. And the insurance company says we'll give you $z ( less than $y ). None of that is going to change! Claims are still going to be made, but it will be the government that says we are going to give you $z.
Bwahahahahaha
You really can't conceive there is a world outside of the US, can you 😀
No dear. In civilized countries hospitals are paid for by people's taxes. You would be surprised how much money is left over when you don't have a grotesque military even if you aren't the richest country in the world.
"The hospitals open claims to the insurance companies saying joe needs operation "x", and it is market value is $y. And the insurance company says we'll give you $z ( less than $y ). "
In civilized countries hospitals say they need drug X. The government tells pharmaceutical companies that they will grant them the right to sell that drug in their country, but only if it's no more than a certain amount. And here is another shocking news: the government CAN in fact do that. Because it's not the US and it's allowed to negotiate market prices. Almost like it's... shocking!... a free market.
@zahlanzi saidThe taxes will still have to cover the cost of the operations and the added government staff needed to assess the claims! These taxes will be predominantly paid by the middle class who have adequate health insurance in the private system. The taxes will not be paid by the benefactors of the system...the people who do not contribute significantly to public taxes. This all amounts to squeeze the people in the middle further...spread their contributions thinner.
"The hospitals still have to procure money and justify the services rendered! "
Yes, and? What's your point.
"There will still be people handling insurance claims- they will just be government people!"
What claims. You are paying taxes. You are insured. Wtf are you talking about. What do you think, there is a requirement in a healthcare system to have someone find reas ...[text shortened]... are increasing the demand ( insuring more people )."
That's the bloody point. Get everyone covered.
@joe-shmo saidThere will not be any insurance companies involved they will be paid by the federal government that’s a whole tier of expensive middle management and sales personnel, not to mention share holders bonuses removed from the equation.
The hospitals are paid by the insurance companies! What don't you understand about this? The hospitals open claims to the insurance companies saying joe needs operation "x", and it is market value is $y. And the insurance company says we'll give you $z ( less than $y ). None of that is going to change! Claims are still going to be made, but it will be the government that says we are going to give you $z.
This isn’t rocket science is it, it’s not even jet engine science, you wouldn’t even need any of them weird function signs on the science calculator to figure this one out.
@joe-shmo saidThe fighter jet is just one of many examples. Obvious, blantant, fraudulent corruptive waste by those in charge of our government who claim to be fiscally conservatives.
That 1.5 Trillion is a one time cost over 55 years. Thats 25 billion a year for the last half century... Healthcare will be multiple Trillion expenditure ANNUALLY.
Yes, of course health care is very, very expensive. Everyone knows that. In your multi-trillions figure, I think you are including existing Medicare and medicaid expenditures, right? Those are expenditures that are supported by both parties, and are not really part of the discussion in medicare expansion. I think private health insurance is only about 31% of all health expenditures currently. That's what the progressives are talking about.
Some people think there should be more access to health care, especially among those who cannot afford it or are not offered it through their employer. Why are conservatives working so hard to expand corporate welfare but not individual welfare?
@joe-shmo said"The taxes will still have to cover the cost of the operations and the added government staff needed to assess the claims"
The taxes will still have to cover the cost of the operations and the added government staff needed to assess the claims! These taxes will be predominantly paid by the middle class who have adequate health insurance in the private system. The taxes will not be paid by the benefactors of the system...the people who do not contribute significantly to public taxes. This all amounts to squeeze the people in the middle further...spread their contributions thinner.
Boi, you thicker than a turkey before thanksgiving. What bloody claims. Whatever bureaucracy is needed will still be less costly than having an entire layer of insurance companies in the middle.
"These taxes will be predominantly paid by the middle class who have adequate health insurance in the private system."
And under Sanders' plan, those taxes would still be less than the premiums they have to pay now and their coverage will be better.
Here is a novel idea though: make sure billionaires pay their fair share instead of allowing them tax loopholes and tax havens. How about that.
"The taxes will not be paid by the benefactors of the system"
it's beneficiaries, you ignoramus.
"the people who do not contribute significantly to public taxes"
they deserve to not die as well.
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@zahlanzi said"What bloody claims."
"The taxes will still have to cover the cost of the operations and the added government staff needed to assess the claims"
Boi, you thicker than a turkey before thanksgiving. What bloody claims. Whatever bureaucracy is needed will still be less costly than having an entire layer of insurance companies in the middle.
"These taxes will be predominantly paid by the middle ...[text shortened]...
"the people who do not contribute significantly to public taxes"
they deserve to not die as well.
The hospitals have to procure the funds to pay the staff! Those bloody claims!
Hospital:
I have to do operation x on Joe. give me $y for my services from the taxes.
Government Claims personnel ( the same as private insurers ) :
Do you really have to do operation x? Why don't you perform q,r, or s? The patient has complications due to a, b, and c. Well in that case you we'll pay for operation r.
That all still happens in your healthcare system whether you think so or not. That takes claims personnel. And if the doctors want paid for the services they provide with tax money they are going through that system. They aren't going to say to the government ( just as they wouldn't to private insurers ) joe had a small rash, so I amputated his leg...give me $100k...
Okey Dokey...here are your funds!
@joe-shmo said"The hospitals have to procure the funds to pay the staff! "
"What bloody claims."
The hospitals have to procure the funds to pay the staff! Those bloody claims!
Hospital:
I have to do operation x on Joe. give me $y for my services from the taxes.
Government Claims personnel ( the same as private insurers ) :
Do you really have to do operation x? Why don't you perform q,r, or s? The patient has complications due to ...[text shortened]... joe had a small rash, so I amputated his leg...give me $100k...
Okey Dokey...here are your funds!
they are funded through public taxes
how are you still not getting this?
"Hospital:
I have to do operation x on Joe. give me $y for my services from the taxes. "
You think hospitals begging for approval to save people is the normal way of doing things?
Hospitals are assigned budgets. Hospitals do procedures as they are available. Because hospitals don't have to deal wiith insurance anymore, those procedures will be cheaper. Drugs will be cheaper because governments negotiate prices directly with pharma companies, again, because of a lack of insurance middle layer.
"Government Claims personnel ( the same as private insurers ) :
Do you really have to do operation x? Why don't you perform q,r, or s?"
What the effin f are you talking about. In what country does a government official advise on what medical procedures doctors can perform?
Is this why you americans (americans like you, i am sure not all are so ignorant) are against single payer healthcare? Because you are so ignorant and traumatized that you think it's gonna be exactly like the dysfunctional system you have now only run by the government?
"That all still happens in your healthcare system whether you think so or not."
No it bloody doesn't.
"They aren't going to say to the government ( just as they wouldn't to private insurers ) joe had a small rash, so I amputated his leg...give me $100k..."
Well, first of all that won't happen, because in civilized countries leg amputations don't cost 100k.
@zahlanzi saidYou need to maybe get on a better personal insurance plan? Mine is absolutely perfect, had a new knee 10 days after it was ordered. Oh, I forgot, you will NOT be able to buy personal private insurance insurance any more under Kamala. What you gonna do? Get in a line behind an illegal immigrant, wait a LONG time, and be introduced to Dr Quansit from Indianola who will have your knee somewhat installed forthwith.
"excellent healthcare which we have today"
ha! You're an idiot.
"and the unsatisfactory healthcare that will evolve with the crowding of that system"
yeh, unsatisfactory. That's why Canadians have been trying to get rid of their universal healthcare system for decades. The French. The UK. Norway. Germany. Spain. Every country is trying to replace their system with one similar to the american one. Paying more for less is their dream.
I like my Dr. I pay for him, though. A single lady who chooses to be irresponsible and has 3 kids might have a difficult time getting good insurance though. The answer????? Why, old Uncle AvJoe will pay for the healthcare of her 3 kids. I will tell the police, who make me do it, that I REFUSE to pay for her abortion.
A guy from Mars just landed in my yard, I told him that scenario,,,he said that that does not make any sense.
2 edits
@zahlanzi said"Well, first of all that won't happen, because in civilized countries leg amputations don't cost 100k"
"The hospitals have to procure the funds to pay the staff! "
they are funded through public taxes
how are you still not getting this?
"Hospital:
I have to do operation x on Joe. give me $y for my services from the taxes. "
You think hospitals begging for approval to save people is the normal way of doing things?
Hospitals are assigned budgets. Hospitals do procedu ...[text shortened]... ell, first of all that won't happen, because in civilized countries leg amputations don't cost 100k.
I'm not sure if that figure of 100k is entirely accurate. That was a figure of total care ( the amputation and follow up care for three years from a medical journal 10 years ago ). But lets say it is.
How much do they cost in your civilized country?
@averagejoe1 saidEither stop being an idiot or stop lying, no one is going to ban private health insurance in the US anymore than they have in the UK and we’ve had an NHS system since the 1940s.
You need to maybe get on a better personal insurance plan? Mine is absolutely perfect, had a new knee 10 days after it was ordered. Oh, I forgot, you will NOT be able to buy personal private insurance insurance any more under Kamala. What you gonna do? Get in a line behind an illegal immigrant, wait a LONG time, and be introduced to Dr Quansit from Indianola who will ...[text shortened]... m Mars just landed in my yard, I told him that scenario,,,he said that that does not make any sense.
I paid BUPA £350 a couple of years ago to get some tests at a time convenient for me but I had the subsequent treatment with the NHS and the results went to me and my NHS GP by email.
So do stop the infantile hyperbolic scare stories.
But yes if the illegal immigrants need for treatment supersedes yours then metaphorically speaking you should be behind him or her for treatment but then if their illegal they won’t have a GP to refer them for treatment, so don’t worry Joe you might still get to see people of different ‘cultures’ dying for lack of expedient treatment.
@averagejoe1 said"You need to maybe get on a better personal insurance plan?"
You need to maybe get on a better personal insurance plan? Mine is absolutely perfect, had a new knee 10 days after it was ordered. Oh, I forgot, you will NOT be able to buy personal private insurance insurance any more under Kamala. What you gonna do? Get in a line behind an illegal immigrant, wait a LONG time, and be introduced to Dr Quansit from Indianola who will ...[text shortened]... m Mars just landed in my yard, I told him that scenario,,,he said that that does not make any sense.
"have more money" is not a measure of how great a healthcare system is. It's just a measure of how heartless it is.
"Mine is absolutely perfect,"
We've established long ago you're a selfish prick, no need to rehash that. You can't conceive the notion that fortunes may change and tomorrow you might be in a position to be without healthcare. If that were to happen, i admit, it would rekindle my belief in a just God.
" Oh, I forgot, you will NOT be able to buy personal private insurance insurance any more under Kamala. "
Dumbass, vice president Harris supports at most a public option (from which she probably backtracked already). I wish she supported single payer but she doesn't.
" Get in a line behind an illegal immigrant"
"illegal immigrants" aren't eligible for most social programs.
"wait a LONG time"
still less than not affording insurance
"and be introduced to Dr Quansit from Indianola"
probably a feeble attempt to be witty and suggest all good doctors will be gone (where).
"who will have your knee somewhat installed forthwith."
or chemotherapy. or heart surgery. or diabetes medicine. or ambulance services that don't bankrupt you.
"I like my Dr. I pay for him, though."
So do all civilized countries. Through taxes. Taxes that are used for important things, not enriching weapon manufacturers and murdering children in some country in the middle east.
"A single lady who chooses to be irresponsible and has 3 kids might have a difficult time getting good insurance though."
Yes, all americans are split between people with excellent healthcare plans obtained through the sheer awesomeness and responsibility of the one in question and irresponsible people. There is no possible way there are uninsured americans because oh the inherent flaws in the system. Like maybe someone getting laid off during a pandemic and losing their employee provided health insurance. Just impossible.
"The answer????? Why, old Uncle AvJoe will pay for the healthcare of her 3 kids"
Yes, because you don't live by yourself in a society of one. Everything you have, everything you did, you did so through others. You drive on roads paid for by everyone, you went to a school funded through everyone taxes. Your property is safe because of police and firemen.
You don't get to decide who is worthy and who isn't, just like we don't decide you are totally not worthy on account of you being an ashole.
@joe-shmo said"I'm not sure if that figure of 100k is entirely accurate. That was a figure of total care ( the amputation and follow up care for three years from a medical journal 10 years ago )"
"Well, first of all that won't happen, because in civilized countries leg amputations don't cost 100k"
I'm not sure if that figure of 100k is entirely accurate. That was a figure of total care ( the amputation and follow up care for three years from a medical journal 10 years ago ). But lets say it is.
How much do they cost in your civilized country?
still no.
" But lets say it is. "
Let's not. On account that it isn't and we don't argue on idiotic make believe scenarios without proof. Just like i am trying to get you to have a freakin accurate picture of single payer instead of the nightmare Tucker Carlson or whatever fox news host hammered into your skull.
"How much do they cost in your civilized country?"
https://www.healthpopuli.com/2013/04/02/u-s-health-costs-vs-the-world-is-it-still-the-prices-and-are-we-still-stupid/
a few examples.