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Debates Forum

  1. 08 May '10 17:08
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8669618.stm

    The former defence minister of Venezuela has been sentenced to almost eight years in prison for corruption while he was in office.

    "Raul Baduel was a key Hugo Chavez ally, and played an important role in defence of the president when he was temporarily ousted in a 2002 coup.

    But after the two fell out in 2007, Mr Baduel was arrested on corruption charges.

    He has also been banned from ever holding political office again"

    "he was the key military man who returned Mr Chavez to power after a short-lived coup against the socialist leader in 2002.

    Mr Chavez values loyalty like no other trait in his inner circle, and responded by making Mr Baduel his defence minister.

    But in 2007, while President Chavez was campaigning to change the constitution to allow him to stand for office beyond the limit of two terms, his former confidant and friend deserted the party and denounced the campaign.

    He said that Mr Chavez was attempting to usurp the constitutional powers of the Venezuelan people, and wrote an opinion piece in the New York Times entitled Why I Parted Ways with Chavez.

    Several months later, the retired general was arrested on corruption charges, accused of misappropriating state funds while he was defence minister.

    For the past year-and-a-half he has been in prison awaiting trial.

    His case has now been heard in a military court and Mr Baduel, who insisted he was innocent, has been sentenced to seven years and 11 months in jail.

    During his imprisonment, he has become something of a rallying point for the opposition, who consider him to be a political prisoner in Venezuela. "

    any thoughts?
  2. 08 May '10 17:19
    Imprisoning political opponents, the bread and butter of any dictator.
  3. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    08 May '10 17:32
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Imprisoning political opponents, the bread and butter of any dictator.
    But KN -- Chavez is not a dictator! He is a Socialist Saint and the darling of the Left around here.

    Did you not get the memo?
  4. 08 May '10 17:35
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    But KN -- Chavez is not a dictator! He is a Socialist Saint and the darling of the Left around here.

    Did you not get the memo?
    No, I didn't... maybe you should pass that memo on. The only one I've seen supporting Chavez on this forum is scherzo, and I haven't seen him in a while.
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 May '10 17:35
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Imprisoning political opponents, the bread and butter of any dictator.
    Chavez is a "dictator" who has the annoying habit of continually winning elections in his country.

    According to Friday's sentence of Mr. Baduel, several million dollars that were under his responsibility went missing, and some of it later ended up in the bank accounts of some of Mr. Baduel's family members.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704858104575232083581516688.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

    Baduel's alleged crimes occurred when he was a General in the Venezuelan army and Minister of Defense which explains why he was tried in front of a military tribunal.

    Not much to see here.
  6. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    08 May '10 17:37
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    No, I didn't... maybe you should pass that memo on. The only one I've seen supporting Chavez on this forum is scherzo, and I haven't seen him in a while.
    See?
  7. 08 May '10 17:40
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    See?
    Darn, forgot one.
  8. 08 May '10 17:42
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Chavez is a "dictator" who has the annoying habit of continually winning elections in his country.

    According to Friday's sentence of Mr. Baduel, several million dollars that were under his responsibility went missing, and some of it later ended up in the bank accounts of some of Mr. Baduel's family members.

    http://online.wsj.com/artic ...[text shortened]... lains why he was tried in front of a military tribunal.

    Not much to see here.
    Chavez is a "dictator" who has the annoying habit of continually winning elections in his country

    and that gives him the right to arbitrarily put political opponents in jail?
    Not to mention the well-known harassment of the media and the opposition, which gives chavez a clear advantage during elections.

    According to Friday's sentence of Mr. Baduel, several million dollars that were under his responsibility went missing, and some of it later ended up in the bank accounts of some of Mr. Baduel's family members.

    It just so convenient that this was found out after Mr. Baduel publicly denounced chavez.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 May '10 17:48
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Darn, forgot one.
    If you're satisfied that an elected President is now a dictator because right wingers parrot this claim over and over and over again, so be it.
  10. 08 May '10 17:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    If you're satisfied that an elected President is now a dictator because right wingers parrot this claim over and over and over again, so be it.
    indeed.

    because like we all know, in most of the world's democracies, it is the govt who decides what the media should/shouldn't broadcast, what people should/shouldn't say, etc, etc.

    venezueala is really as free as any other country in the democratic world.

    edit: not to mention all the constitutional changes, that sort of thing happens all over the world! presidents get to serve for 10+ years, power is concentrated on the executive, etc ,etc.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 May '10 17:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    [/b]Chavez is a "dictator" who has the annoying habit of continually winning elections in his country

    and that gives him the right to arbitrarily put political opponents in jail?
    Not to mention the well-known harassment of the media and the opposition, which gives chavez a clear advantage during elections.

    According to Friday's sentence ...[text shortened]...

    It just so convenient that this was found out after Mr. Baduel publicly denounced chavez.
    These foolish claims have been dealt with many times in these forums. There is a very active anti-Chavez media and there are political parties free to run against his party in elections. The people of Venezuela seem largely satisfied with his policies much to your chagrin. They were free to and did vote down a package of proposed constitutional reforms several years ago. Funny thing to happen in a "dictatorship".

    If Baduel is guilty of embezzlement he deserves to go to prison, doesn't he? This investigation has preceded for several years, do you have any evidence that Baduel is not guilty? Several million dollars of Defense money apparently made its way to the bank accounts of his family; should he get a pass because he now opposes the government?
  12. 08 May '10 17:55
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    If you're satisfied that an elected President is now a dictator because right wingers parrot this claim over and over and over again, so be it.
    I think I have a different view of democracy. And it's a view Chavez doesn't approve of.
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 May '10 17:57
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I think I have a different view of democracy. And it's a view Chavez doesn't approve of.
    Apparently your view of "democracy" doesn't include the people deciding who should be in positions of power in their country.
  14. 08 May '10 18:09
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Apparently your view of "democracy" doesn't include the people deciding who should be in positions of power in their country.
    Sure it does. It also includes free press, no political prisoners, among other things.
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 May '10 18:15
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Sure it does. It also includes free press, no political prisoners, among other things.
    You're being more gullible than usual.

    The press in Venezuela is overwhelmingly anti-Chavez yet it continues to operate attacking him and his policies on a daily basis. Odd thing in a "dictatorship".

    And I fail to see how a conviction of a former government official for stealing millions of dollars equates to having "political prisoners".